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Build Diaries => Countach => Topic started by: Graeme Stebbing on December 18, 2013, 08:30:28 PM
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Hi Guys, Would anyone have any dimensions of this unit, or even better a CAD drawing,and a possible supplier of the switches, as I have not won the lotto I figure I'm going to have to make one from scratch , but without some idea of its size, I don't know how wide to make my console, I had thought of going with a single din width, but that looks too wide, any help much appreciated.
Graeme
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I would suggest contacting this guy , http://www.siennacountach.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=129&Itemid=59 (http://www.siennacountach.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=129&Itemid=59)
His name is Theo and he is an administrator on the uk forum 'lamboreplica.co.uk'
If you can get measurements I can draw it up for you , and maybe a 3d print can be made..
:)
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Graeme;
I have been looking for the same thing for a while now. I asked Theo over on Lamboreplica a while ago if he would be willing to send me his CAD but I never heard back.
I have been looking at how I can make one of these myself with either milled plastic or maybe even a 3d print as String suggests. I have even been searching out plastic molding supplies local to me to see I can make a buck and then mold the top panel and switch plugs.
If you can get the measurements, I think between us, we can get something made up. Please keep me posted on your progress.
Thanks
Don
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Thanks Guys, So I guess its between all of us to try and come up with something, I am looking hard at the controller in my mitzi gto tt and have a spare which I disassembled, this unit is a colour display and measures 75 wide and 55 high and very nice looking only problem is buttons are in the wrong place but they just are contacts on a pcb and could be changed to remote switches but its two wide, bigger than a standard din, but it could with some work be grafted into another front panel and the buttons rearranged, but without the dimensions cant go there. Even the heater unit is a good size to fit under the dash and as its a two door coup will have enough air to demist a countach screen. So if some one has the measurements that would be great, I did also hear of a guy called riceburner who made one, I don't know if it looked original, but have not been able to track him down I think he was on KC
Does anyone have the dimensions of the console ie the space that the controller sits in between the bolsters each side of the centre console if I had that measurement I could scale it backwards from photos. also found a better pic I had salted away.
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Graeme;
Duh.... I can get access to an oem 25th Anniversary centre console piece. The 25th, I believe is the same centre console shape, just different equipment in the locations..... I had Cliff Miller build me a full interior (which I then sold before getting this latest proejct..... ::duh) The guy that bought the project is local to me so i can go to his place and take measurements and pictures so we can work backwards from there....
Even if we are close but it looks good and fits in the right place, I am OK with that.
More to come.
Thanks
Don
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As another angle - the diablo circa 1998 uses the same controller and for whatever reason , the buttons are available separately , eg . 006027080 , one button purchase would give dimensions and exactly what you get ie. switch and button , then would seem better value. ::pirate
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Forgot to say that Riceburner did an HVAC for the Diablos so a different face. He originally made one for the 355 Ferraris (I helped him by taking his first unit and fitting it into the centre console of my project). His main circuitry was for a Fiero as well but I think he redid the programming for other units as well. He did great work but I think he is out of it now.
Cheers
Don
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Outstanding String.
I just checked Lambostuff and they are available....... Even relatively cheap given it is Lambo. $32. Let's see what shipping ends up costing..... and I will order one for reference
Thanks very much
Don
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Hi Don, So what your saying is you had a senior moment lol , I know at nearly 60 I get them all the time, yep the 25th console width would do, brilliant the measurement does not have to be perfect so long as its close, if I made mine with the gto display it will not be original, but hey in NZ how many people have ever seen a real Countach, I have only ever seen two real cars here and one was the Alpine display car in 87 that's when I started building (cant rush these things you know) , so don't care if its not dead accurate just so long as it does look close.
Good news on the switch info thanks for that String.
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Looking at the countach controller picture above , the top row centre button looks a lot like ..
the button I have outlined below, this is the company that makes most of lambo's switches , I will contact the agent and get specifications tomorrow ( it's late here now..), he's usually very quick with info but perilously close to the weekend - well in Italy anyway.
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String if you can come up with a file for me, i would be more than happy to print it out and create a mold, then cast the parts.
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I have been digging and came up with this, probably have to sell my first born to afford it, no price wonder how much they are, anyone overseas that can contact them and find the price, http://www.exoticwholesaleparts.com/partview.php?id=365 (http://www.exoticwholesaleparts.com/partview.php?id=365) they also have heaps of other lambo oem parts even Countach bits and pieces.
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they seem to be in Ohio... lots of interesting parts but the only price list is suggested retail...
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Thanks Digibeam, Seems strange to call themselves exotic WHOLESALE and then sell Retail did not find a price list will have to have another look. ahhgg pays to scroll down, it says to call for a sharp price, maybe they have a couple of hundred of them and are going to virtually give them away lol , you never know
Regards
Graeme
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The switch 816/N is 24.83mm ( a fraction over 1inch) wide x 13.2mm (just over 1/2 inch ) high.
Has a depth of 24.25mm and have no idea if it the right size but seems as if it should be .
If 10 were ordered as per a control unit then they would work out at about $12.94 each delivered , 20+ would bring them down to about $9.98 each. :CSS
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Wow, You guys have been busy over the past day or so.... And so have I.... I really love these communities that get together to help each other out.
I have measurements from DC Supercars off the UK site for the controller plate. Pics attached.
I also have a switch from Lambostuff on its way. Way more than the $10 String has up above..... I planned on getting how it is lighted and its overall shape to make a CAD of the button and then I assume the images are printed on plastic and cut out to fit on the buttons. I will know more of how the button tops are shaped when I get the button for reference. I will take pics and get them up here as well.
We are progressing very nicely.
DigiBeam. You are over in Vancouver are you not? This is Don from Victoria BC. We had chatted before. How much would the 3d printing cost once we get the CAD complete?
Now I have another project to do over Christmas in between staining the new shelves I recently built and finishing off the 308 replica... Nothing like several projects on the go to help fill the voids while stuff is drying....
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Hi Don , Good news, Is that a scaled up measurement or a actual measurement, I went to dcsupercars.com but cant find the pic you have , did find a facebook page in boston though with a 4 turbo bmw I have been doing some digging also and this is a pic of one of the switches it appears when you blow it up that it has an insert in the front that would have the desired logo printed from behind so that the light shines through, based on your measurements that means the individual switches would be about 18mm each not the 24.83 that String found, if you used his measurement the whole panel would have been about 170mm wide and that's two big to fit in the console.
Regards
Graeme
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Graeme;
If you go to lamboreplica dot co dot uk and go to Countach, you will see a couple of my posts. The one you are interested in is the HVAC measurements post. DC Supercars is a company in the UK that builds Diablo and Countach replicas. I think the owner's name is Clive. He has taken oem Lambo HVAC units and installed them into his projects so he took measurements from one of his units and posted a reply for me.
He also has a website but not sure what that may be. I haven't started doing the math yet to see how big the buttons are but from his measurements I think I can get pretty close to real size at least so it is realistic for our purposes.
Cheers
Don
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Hi Don, Thanks for that, found it i'm also known as Lambo on that site, I have been on there for years, lots of good info, this is dc supercars facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/pages/DC-Supercars/221756524611048 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/DC-Supercars/221756524611048)
lots of good info also, like his rebuild of the BMW v12 etc, it will be good once you get the OEM switch then you can make heaps of progress, did you see the Prova manual Chris posted a few days ago really helpful for me as my shell is basically a Prova copy, if only I can find a prova chassis plan. http://lamboclone.com/index.php?topic=1719.0 (http://lamboclone.com/index.php?topic=1719.0)
Best regards
Graeme
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Hey Don, thats right we are very close, other than the boat ride...haha
if i can get a hold of the files i can see what sort of time and material it will take to build the unit and we can go from there, but in honesty, its better to print one unit then make a mould and cast the rest, printing some things like the Reventon fuel assembly takes 13 hours at a time.
casting would only take an hour or so with the type of materials i use.
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I might have access to some Vector art images of the face plate and buttons. Will those work or is a CAD file better?
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Vector will work for me also, i will have to convert them, but knowing the required dimensions it can all be worked out
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Ok String...... I have been trying to relearn Cad for the past several days. I can get the 2d image set up more or less but 3d is currently alluding me.....
Any tutorials you know of to help me out on the 3d in CAD part??
Much appreciated..
Merry Christmas to everyone
Don
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Ok String...... I have been trying to relearn Cad for the past several days. I can get the 2d image set up more or less but 3d is currently alluding me.....
Any tutorials you know of to help me out on the 3d in CAD part??
Much appreciated..
Merry Christmas to everyone
Don
Hi, not sure where to start with a tutorial , but I do rely on construction lines to add depth and an extra plane to work on.
To make things easier I have attached a mockup part based on dimensions given so far , this is as close as I can estimate so far but by all means develop this model or use it as a reference to update measurements .This part looks perfect for 3D printing and developing the part/s should yield a suitable model , as such does a suitable LCD screen already exist ?
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Thanks so much String;
I have been reading up on 3D in CAD and looking at online docs and tutorials as well. I have ProgeCAD which is very close to AutoCAD but not nearly as expensive. I used it when I was designing Data Centres so never really needed to get into the 3D side of the product.
I will take this model you have so graciously provided and keep going on the additional items I think need to be put in to get the proper face plate.
I have found an LCD screen that changes from F to C and is Green and pretty close to the same dimensions as what looks like the oem version is.
I will adjust this model to include the LCD dims and see what it looks like.
Thanks again for this excellent starting point.
Cheers
Don
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if that looks about right, i could give it a try to print out and see what it looks like, also, Don isnt that far away from where i live, so if it works out ok then its easy to go back and forth, also, the display part is not too much of an issue.
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Hi Don, I found these 5 pics up on Theo's site,http://www.siennacountach.net/gallery/aircon/promo, looks like he made a lot of progress at the time, it was a few years ago through.Have you recontacted Theo at all, maybe it might help reduce the r&d.
Hang in there as i'm finding 3d cad is not as easy as you might think, in fact its really hard, I am finding that out for my self with my chassis, its definitely a lot harder than it appears, thanks for your efforts String, with a bit of luck we will get a Panel that looks every bit as good as the original, unfortunately Don my cad skills are not good enough to help.
regards
Graeme
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Graeme;
I have contacted Theo but he has not returned my emails or pms on the UK site. One of the reasons I have been continuing with this route.
Digibeam;
I haven't looked at the inside rear off the faceplate yet to see if the buttons have been inset. One of the small details I have been thinking of. If I end up doing a flat plate at the back the buttons would need to be inset. No big deal at all on thru original prototype here. I just downloaded google sketchup as that looks like what String used for this first prototype for us.
Is it possible to do a run on the face plate only? I am not sure what we will end up doing on the rear container yet but it would be great to see what rye face plate itself looks like.
Thanks all
Don
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Sure , if string will share with me his version so far, i can turn it into a printable unit and then we can see what the physical unit will look like.
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Don, Good news at least you are also making some progress.I have been playing in the last hour or so and can now draw a chassis tube in SU and make it hollow yaaaa .
Do you or digibeam have skype .I have some questions about SU that can only be explained by seeing what I'm trying to do, I'm using ver 7.1 so no pay, and have a patch that allows import of dwg format drawings something you cant do in the latest version of SU, if its any help I can send over for you.
Graeme
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i dont use skype at all, sorry about that. but i do use SU though i have the paid version 8+ i believe so it would be based on that.
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hi Digi, I am only using the old version so I can see if it will do what I am trying to do, and that is edit a chassis to suit my suspension components from my donor, I did have a play with version 8 but if I remember right it will not import a dwg is that correct, I found that once I saved in ver 8, it would not open in 7.1, the original plan I have is in dwg format so I can only import it into ver 7.1 with the patch add on.
I am very much a beginner in cad, if I can draw some lines its a plus lol, I am trying to use section plane to cut the top off the vertical tube with the 2 dots above it on my chassis, I am trying to bring it down to the horizontal main part of the chassis, I am using the section plane tool, is that the right tool to use, i can get it to shorten the tube down, but the area the cut covers is too big and it then starts to erase the top off the horizontal tube that runs across above the rear suspension, do you have any idea how I can restrict the size of the cut, I just don't seem to be able to work out how to do that.
The other thing I am trying to do is move the bottom rails closer together, at some point I was able to move the bottom rails and all the other verticals that came off the rails either got longer or shorter automatically to suit the repositioned bottom rails, I was able to move the bottom frame separate to the rest of the drawings as it appears to be in a different layer,I think it depended weather I was saving my template, in architectural or engineering mode , but it only did that once,what I am trying to get is the dimensions that I apply to the rail width to also stretch and grow as I move the rails so I know where to position them, in relation to the centre of the chassis Any Help Much appreciated.
regards
Graeme
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with SU8 I can import:skp,dwg,dxf,3ds,dem,ddf,kmz,dae,jpg,png,psd,tif,tga,bmp.
without any other add ons.
i am wondering if you have something locked on your drawing? or perhaps a limit has been set on the part itself?
where is that file from?
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hi I found it in a torrent a few years ago and I just salted it away for a rainy day, I'm sorry don't remember where it came from, the problem is I don't have the skill to know if its locked in some way, each tube appears to have its own layer identity, when you look at the properties of each piece. The move functions seems to group various parts together and move them as a block. You can explode it through to deal to the parts separately.
i downloaded SU8 a few months ago and would have bought it if it would import a dwg format, and that was the only format of file I had but the demo would not import the drawing, version 7 with the old ms add on would work.
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well, i am happy to try it if you want me to... :)
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hi you have an email
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I received my Countach HVAC button today. Pretty complex really. I think we will simple it up a bit...
I will get pics up tomorrow probably. Just heading out to celebrate another year gone.
Graeme;
You have a pm.
Happy New Year everyone
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i guess i should have posted this here first? well its on my build log also...
but here is a printed version of Strings file for the controller...
not high quality, but for sure shows what it looks like or could look like...
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Looks great Digibeam. Thanks very much for running a prototype for us. I will refine the model a bit with some additional button insets and size the display holes for items we can get. I will also draw up the button to put the light hole and image insets in place etch.
Thanks again as this looks great.
Cheers
Don
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Hi Don . I hope you have recovered from new year and had a good one, what size are the buttons you have and what size is the display hole. Im trying to see if my mitzi display is an option I have dead unit disassembled and so can measure the actual display size
Regards
Graeme
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and here are the buttons added in, i made them as a collection rather than individual, just easier for validation.
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@ Lambo,
i got your email, thank you, i have been looking at the original file and each time i try to correct the formats it seems to give me a hang, so i suspect that there are locked areas possibly from the original designer, i will keep trying some options to get it as open and usable as possible.
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Thanks Digi, I am sitting here trying to unravel Rhino its slow progress, i'm trying to use the scale function even on another drawing but it wont do as commanded lol
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Guys got some pic that may help the cause, the visible display area can be limited to 40h x 60w the actual display glass is 55h x 92w the display can easily be detached from the pcb, and put on a ribbon cable or such also, the same for the button pads just connect to a switch and remote them. The question I have is will the display size fit between the two rows of switches if it does its a easy way to have a controller, if not we could make the top and bottom buttons a little further apart no one would even notice, the twin turbo version is colour and I think its called a 3000gt over your way. Connect the heater on the end and your done.
Regards
Graeme
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that display is a bit bigger than i expected. also with it being a fluorescent display, you have to keep in mind short runs for the connectivity and the voltages required to keep the display excited.
60x40 could be squeezed in but it would push the buttons far to the edge which leaves little room for the wall thickness.
a smaller button could be designed though and other than having a proportional issue, it would work. another thought would be to alter the panel all together to accept the layout of this unit and put the buttons up and down either side? or is that taking the part too far away from visual requirements?
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As far as putting the buttons down the sides that would work, as mentioned above its the 55 x 92 overall for the display that has to fit, it's what I was thinking of trying, down in NZ very few people will ever see a real Countach with the real controller, I have only ever seen two real cars in 30 yrs, so as long as its functional, and looks acceptable, I am good. The other aspect is that the heater unit comes from a 2 seat coup so is not huge, compared to many.
I have spent years at the pickapart looking for a heater small enough with all the functions, I even have come home with a MR2 heater but its a basic manual type control. And really about the same size.
The gto unit will fit the limited space in front of the centre console . Up under the dash
It has a small brain box controller, and the aircon section and the blower section can be separated and ducted from anywhere under the hood. I also found out it has a anti belt slip function that detects if the belt is slipping, in a gto it drives alternator also if it detects slip, it opens the aircon pump clutch.
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Hi all,
Due to my past experience posting on hear I was not going to post any more but I figure I help out.
I have several of these controllers as I bought one that was for the Countach, then I bought 2 or 3 for the Diablo but as with used items on ebay you get what you get. I finally bought a new one. In the pic below You will see one is for the Countach one for the Diablo and one new for the Diablo (New one is for my Diablo Roadster). A while back I also made an exact replica with working buttons as well as the LED digits, I will try to dig up the molds and a test unit and post pic later. My replica were just switches and a LED that can set the desired digit and I am sure someone could build a controller to get it to interface it with the Fiero heater system. I will also consider selling the used units if someone is interested just email me and we can work out a price.
Thanks
CCIE
Yusha_2000@yahoo.com
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whats the furry part on the left side for?
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Hi Digi, Looks like velcro, I suspect it probably attached to his phone, to stop it sliding around, any luck with the file, a little boy waits lol.
Regards
Graeme
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Hi,
Ya that is Velcro, the stickers falls of so the previous owner put Velcro to hide the hole (as can be seen in the Countach controller which is missing both side stickers)
Pic below is the exact replica version. The top is OEM and the bottom is replica.
By the way in the picture below the top OEM one is taller since the control electronic is underneath it, my replica controller is shorter as there is no controller electronic but they are exact size from the front.
Thanks
CCIE
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CCIE you have an email
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so the buttons actually stick out that far?
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Digibeam
The buttons do stick up quite far. I haven't taken a pic yet of the button but the switch movement when pressing and releasing is about a 1/4" at least.
CCIE
Are you willing to make any more controllers or willing to sell the plans etc.?
Thanks
Don
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Pics and a drawing of the Countach HVAC button I purchased from Lambostuff recently. Finally had time to sit and draw it up and take some pics.
Don
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I just heard back from Theo over on lamboreplica.uk and he said he will post his CAD files up on his web site for his controller when he gets a chance. It has been several years since he have done anything with it so he had to find it. He is also extremely busy so it may take a while to get posted up there.
Cheers
Don
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OK all;
I have been able to get my hands on an oem HVAC controller for reference. I have taken it apart and taken pictures at all angles.
The HVAC controller is pretty darn simple really. Push down a button for the various venting positions and they stay pushed in and electrically move the vent flaps. Very much the same setup as the Fiero HVAC control unit.
I have purchased an Arduino UNO unit to run my controller and I am now writing out some pseudocode to get my flows and scenarios worked out and then into some C++ coding to build my own unit.
My plans are:
- Use the HVAC face to measure and make a buck to be molded
- I plan to use micro switches for the buttons so they won't work exactly the same as the oem buttons
- I will need to add some LEDs to each button to show what button is enabled and what is not.
- I also plan to update the LED temp display to a small LCD screen that I can ads a few more items to rather than just the temperature that the heater is set to.
It won't be an exact copy of the Countach HVAC controller but it will work for my purposes and be updated a bit to provide more info and usefulness than the original.
The project won't be speedy by any means as I am doing it later at night when I get back out of the garage or finishing up the latest "Honey-do contracting" project that my wife needs done......
I will post up some pics of the oem controller unit soon.
Cheers
Don
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A confirmation of button functions as I write out my controller code.
Button functions from top left
- A/C Button
- Feet Vent
- Dash Front/Console Vents
- Dash Upper/Defrost Vent
- Defroster. This one is the one I am most confused about. Is it a defrost power button like we have where it shuts ll the other vents off and turns the fan up to high and blasts the condensation off the screen? Or is it the rear window defrost button?
Buttons from Bottom Left to Right
- Recirc so shut off the outside air. Usually used with A/C
- Temp Down
- Celsius/Fahrenheit switch button
- Temp Up Button
- Fan Button. Has three speeds
Can anyone confirm or correct me please?
Thanks
Don
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I received some help from a Lambo mechanic. He graciously supplied me with the user/shop manual pages from a Diablo, which used the same HVAC controllers as the Countach in the early years.
My assumptions were quite incorrect for the A/C and the vent buttons. Time to update my pseudo-code to reflect the proper operation... Funny, the English side of the pages really read like a literal translation from the Italian..... ::beers
For the Diablo replica owners, this HVAC unit will also work as this the HVAC controller for the early Diablo's
Cheers
Don