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How To - Tips => Electrical => Topic started by: Tallon on June 01, 2014, 06:46:10 PM
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Well.. I decided to sort through the wiring that I pulled from my Audi A8 and I don't know what the easiest way to separate the engine wiring from the wiring that isn't needed is. It all seems to be intertwined, when you follow an required connector for the engine it just scatters through all the body wiring that I don't want. I could just throw it all in but this is one heavy clump of wire! And that car had way too many features ::scratch I assume there will be a lot of dtc's
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You...are... Getting married today... Right?
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dont , just yet, some Audi guys said they have module in doors ,with out wont start , Now that is not confirmed ,but check it out first. go to Audi forum or dealers and ask someone. best get a cup of coffee for one the mechanics that works on electrical . :CSS
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You...are... Getting married today... Right?
darn I forgot. LOL nah that would be Mitch
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dont , just yet, some Audi guys said they have module in doors ,with out wont start , Now that is not confirmed ,but check it out first. go to Audi forum or dealers and ask someone. best get a cup of coffee for one the mechanics that works on electrical . :CSS
Aw wtf that's ridiculous :\ Hope that's not the case especially since I cut it when I didn't want to tear the back of the car apart, so really in the picture that's just half of the whole thing
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You should ideally have the instrument pack and the steering column pickup sensor for the key ....and of course the key .. ;)
If you can let me know the engine code , gearbox code and type variant I can lookup the appropriate diagram sections ::study
For now , the loom is basically two sections thus..
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*brain explode*
well engine is AKB, not sure on trans code since I'm not using it but it was a 5hp24 AWD
2000 (D2) A8 Quattro 4.2L 40v engine
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Ok , AKB is straight forward for this model , as it is only fitted with one gearbox option EDG. To explain , when removing components from the VAG range of cars the data sticker info is crucial for looking up the correct spare parts and data/ wiring diagram in the workshop system . Regardless of whether the parts are being used or not.
There are only two version options with this model so shouldn't present any problems paring down the necessary wiring components , this is assuming you have the engine bay electrics box ,the passenger footwell box and the main fusebox.
::duh
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Yea I have all that it's attached to the harness I took a picture of, I guess if I had cut out everything out when it was in the car it would have been easier
I thought the car had immobiliser but I can't find it, then I heard there could also be one in the security system
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ok , if you have the main connector box , it makes it much easier to seperate the loom. The immobilser is the first problem to overcome.... do you have the dash insert and the ignition switch key reader..?
and the key..
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I have the whole column but I couldn't find a control unit, I've seen pictures of it but I looked through the rubble and couldn't find one and I don't even remember pulling something like this from the dash.
I have the key and coil reader
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wow I can't find the unit anywhere, and everything should be in the car :( only thing that came up missing so far
I found one that is the alarm module but I don't think it's it, 20 pins
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'unit' ? , the immobiliser is built into the dash panel insert ( instruments ) - as indicated in last pics ... with this you know the engine can run.... ;)
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Ah, IN the cluster.. ::scratch well i guess this model is not a standalone immo like other A8's I had no idea. It seems they started out that way and then in newer models they went back to using it again.
But whichever the case, I do have the instrument cluster. I'm not sure if I can fit the A8's instruments into the Murcielago surround though. It seems a bit bigger. If I can get it to fit I wouldn't mind how it looks.
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Excellent , with that sorted , we can start looking up the relevant wiring required for the engine only . The bulk of the loom from the ecu to engine components should be straightforward to separate , that would leave a list of wires at the ecu plug which would need to be determined.Noting all those remaining ecu pin numbers would be a starting point.
:)
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Does the immobilizer get disabled in the ecu then? Is it expensive to do something like this?
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Ah , the sequence is that the dash checks the transponder in the key and then gives authorisation to the ecu . There is constant communication between the dash and engine as you might expect for tachometer etc.
I realised that I need to install USA wiring diagrams , so a task for tomorrow .. ::study
I am also in a similar position with my bmw engine - dash , so a bit of a mission for me too.
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Talon, what kind of tranny are you going to use?? does it need ECU re flash??also I would in your case replace all gaskets, water pump , belts etc . its easy to do when the engine is out . those German engines needs constant maintenance . I have a BMW so I know what it take to have a good reliable ride.All German cars are same ,constant electrical /mechanical problems when they aged.
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I'm using a 5hp19 FWD from a passat and I've been told the ecu won't be able to communcate with it normally and the best way I've found is to use a tcm-2000 from powertraincontrolsolutions and it's the only standalone unit I've found that will work.
But this option is $750.00 + $190 for the harness.
Then I guess the ecm will need to think it's using a manual.
On the other hand there is a european version A8 that does use a fwd 5hp19 but it's a 3.7L not a 4.2 and even if I had the ECU/TCU combo who knows if it'll still work for the 40v 4.2L engine.
Not much for a couple years of research but most audi guys don't know a thing about these setups. I only know of one guy that did this exact combination and he put an a8 with his porsche and used a shift box for an eagle talon but then he sold it right after, he claimed it worked fine but I have no idea how since the two cars don't have the same amount of solenoids used for shifting or anything similar at all. (I bought the same shift box) I could only get in contact with him a couple times then he stopped responding. Which sucks when you find the only one in the world who has done what you are trying to do.
I see why the electrical problems. I'm pulling my hair out with the diagrams. Like the connectors on the engine harness, there are many RANDOM unrelated circuits (engine AND common) that go partly through one connector that is shared with other random circuits. When you'd think each connector should be related circuits. And there is no pinouts anywhere that tell you what each pin represents, you have to know what circuit to look in to inspect it. I went to school and learned how to read amercian diagrams but that was first grade stuff apparently.
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Dude, maybe use Hall tech, Jim Dinner used original computers and relays on his V12 beema, it worked and drove pretty good to me, but it had some problems after, so he change the to Hall . got it Dyno tune by PURE , ( they specilize in tuning German and Japanese cars.) Kick butt now.
in long run you may save more money rather swap ECMs after other . see What Nick Truman went with his Audi engines.
let us know about the progress
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Hi Tallon, Have you tried this site for wiring info etc, I have found it pretty good in the past.
http://www.audizine.com/search/index.php?s=&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=ISO-8859-1&securitytoken=1235689648-86b44b13b2191460e62330ab2893c58737839544&do=process&searchthreadid=&cx=partner-pub-7993519228154114%3A3mpjf4-30rk&q=a8+wiring+manual&searchWhere=partner-pub-7993519228154114%3A3mpjf4-30rk&sa.x=13&sa.y=8 (http://www.audizine.com/search/index.php?s=&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=ISO-8859-1&securitytoken=1235689648-86b44b13b2191460e62330ab2893c58737839544&do=process&searchthreadid=&cx=partner-pub-7993519228154114%3A3mpjf4-30rk&q=a8+wiring+manual&searchWhere=partner-pub-7993519228154114%3A3mpjf4-30rk&sa.x=13&sa.y=8)
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At first glance it would seem that if you have the gearbox control ecu that would avoid any communication issues on the CAN bus . That would then require looking into whether the gearbox ecu can be made to work with your 5hp19 gearbox.
On the wiring diagrams , start with the main ecu [J220] multiplug as an example - then we can see injectors 5 to 8 are supplied with a current from fuse [ S116 ] 20A via a black & grey (yes , that is the correct way to spell it :) wire common to all four. Then from injector 5 [ N83 ] for instance , it has a brown & white wire to ecu pin 97 . The part brown colour indicates an earth switching control. A solid brown will always be a ground wire.
All ground connections go the base of the diagram , as can be seen by coil [ N323 ] pin 2 of the multiplug and the location of the ground point.
Pin 3 of the coil multiplug has a white & brown wire going to ecu [J220] pin 103.
The cambelt interval for your engine is 80,000miles / 6 years , always recommended anyway.
no other items to worry about.
As someone who runs a 28 year old german car , as has so for the last 21years , it does not need constant maintenance and does not have constant mechanical / electrical problems.
::wave
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MR String I guess you own many German cars, with out any electrical and mechanical issues. maybe the cars that are in Europe are better build.
here in N A continent they all are crap , my son bought a brand new VW 2012 couple years ago and with in a month the car was in 7 times in dealership for a repair , Yes electrical , power windows did not worked well and radio. till now the windows are still not working good sometimes.
my BMW same, it says on screen tail lites not working ,but they do and so on.
take no offence please ,just saying due to I do work in auto biz and see it and hear it from clients.
and the cars that where build 28 years ago had no problems , no computers and other HI tech stuff.
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I have an 84 BMW 325, it has several computer modules in it that monitor lights, brakes, various temperatures as well as ice warnings and service intervals, along with the usual operational computers, any of which if they go faulty the car would show a dis function, to date the original computers function as they did day one.
And I drive it all year round in Canada....
First thing I always check on a vehicle is the date code, specially engine blocks... If it was made on a Monday or a Friday I pass...
The worse lemons are built after a weekend or just before.
I would have to say as long as no one has messed with your sons radio or any wire systems including speakers etc. that you have one of the pristine Monday morning vehicles.
::K
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I believe it was scott and nate at 034motorsport that said it couldn't be done
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Hey Digi, on my sons VW lease is over end of the year, so back to Acura or other Jap car.
BTW I did leased a Acuras for my wife past 12 years and only I changed the oil and winter tires on them. never ever had any issues.
anyway back to to Talons wiring.
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For ecu are you talking about universal platinum sport 1000? From what I can tell is I keep the stock ecu?
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Not bad now.. lost a ton of weight in wires
now how do I lose the IC..
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Wish I could help you there, no idea about that harness at all.
Chassis is looking good, but I see a few areas missing gussets and support...that area I have an idea about
::K
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Yea I haven't done anything to it since you last noticed that lol except por-15
Lots of work but I still need to get my welder home from work. I have plenty of 1/8" 1/4"+ flat stock available but the tubing I need to buy. So ideas on what to do with the flat would be helpful :)
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Digibeam is saying add some gussets for strength: http://weldingdesign.com/processes/using-gussets-and-other-stiffeners-correctly (http://weldingdesign.com/processes/using-gussets-and-other-stiffeners-correctly)
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I knew what he was saying ::scratch
I went on to explain that my chassis isn't finished and requires more than just gussets. He knows what I mean.
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Sorry, I didn't see your tongue in your cheek. :)
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I used to have a build diary but I took it off since it's moving very slow. Not much to show that I haven't already. :-\
I started my build Before I became a homeowner lol (not rich anymore :'()
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You should put it back up. It doesn't matter how slowly things are progressing. I would still be interested. ::thumbup