LamboClone - The Premier Site for Lamborghini Replica Builders
How To - Tips => Heating and Cooling => Topic started by: 01Lambiero on June 04, 2014, 01:28:20 PM
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In my search for steel mesh to go in my air scoop and radiator intake openings, I located a company that sells mesh that may work for your build also. McNichols.com's downloadable pdf master catalog. Remember to check the air restriction percentage when ordering mesh for your air intakes and vents. I looked for a round hole perforated mesh that had 1/4" holes on 1/4" centers but couldn't find any. All that I found was .25" on .313" centers 20ga. This size of holes cuts the air flow down to 58% of the opening. The mesh that I liked better was the hexagon hole .25" on .281" 22 ga." which flowed 78%. When air flow counts especially to your radiators, 20% more air makes a difference. I am waiting on McNichol to send me a "cut to size" quote which I will post on here when it arrives. First pic: 1/4" hole pattern. Second pic: 1/4" hole pattern. Jim
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O1L,
It is not just the percentage of the hole, the size of the hole is also critical. A simple experiment will show this. Blow an electric fan through a window screen, which I am guessing is at least 75% open, and see how much air passes through. The faster the air moves, the less it will pass through a small opening. I am one of the many that has found out the hard way that 1/4" screen on the front of a racecar at 100+MPH will overheat in no time, it has to be 3/8" or better. I know this sounds absurd, but when a car overheats constantly for no apparant reason, take the screen off and see what happens. Numerous people more knowlegable than me on the subject have verified this after the fact.
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Depends what you're building the car for I guess
If you're racing it probably doesn't need to look pretty anyway
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If it depends on what you are building, what exactly would you build where overheating would be acceptable? And every racecar that I ever built was darn pretty.
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On my Diablo, I need to put mesh on each rear radiator, rocker intakes, quarter panel air intakes, engine compartment vents, muffler compartment vent, and engine air intake. I don't know if I will need any on the front of the car yet. It's hard to locate exact oem metal mesh but I do like the hexagon mesh so will probably go with that. Whether Diablo or Murcie, you will have to watch the air flow to your radiators regardless. If you are going with a 57% air flow and compensating with a higher cfm fan, you might end up in a pinch. We all want our builds to be Kool and Cool.
Jim
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If it depends on what you are building, what exactly would you build where overheating would be acceptable? And every racecar that I ever built was darn pretty.
I only said that because you mentioned going over 100mph would cause overheating and I don't know of any road where that would be legal.
Race cars could look good I'm sure but most I've seen aren't made to look show car good :S
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Tallon, no harm no foul. O1L, I am just trying to help here. I am not suggesting to use chicken wire but the material you selected will not work. It might for the other openings, but not for the radiator. Many years ago Joe at Inland Exotics told me never to use any material for a grille that could also be used to house small animals. He had his other faults, but that was sound advice. You owe me absolutely nothing, but because you seem to be a knowlegable and prudent builder, I still ask a big favor. Purchase a few square feet of the mesh and refer back to the fan experiment. Place it in front of a typical house fan on low and note how little air flows through it. Now turn the fan to a higher CFM and see how much LESS air flows through it. I am no expert on boundary layers and such, I have learned all of this the hard way. Again just trying to help.
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Custom Car Grilles at customcargrills.com has this to offer:
Raw Material: Aluminum
Raw Thickness: 0.064" / 14 Gauge
Open Area: ~ 77%
Pricing:
6"x36": $15.99
16"x48": $44.99
Plain Silver (standard)
Black Powder Coated: +$10
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Much better! Life Rule #42, "One test is worth a thousand engineers".
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This is the mesh used on the OEM parts I have,
The grill is a slight diamond shape and very thin but fairly strong in its mounted position
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Kool. I was searching for the diamond pattern but couldn't find any that had a diamond smaller than 1/2'x1" which is way to large. What is the actual measurement on the OEM in the pic? Here is a pic of what I was trying to find for my Diablo.
76mx: When any object is place in the path of air flow, you will see a reduction in velocity. The larger the object the less air flow. Speeding up the velocity is a way to compensate. When manufacturers state open area of a mesh, they are subtracting the cross sectional area of the material that makes up the mesh. We gotta keep those birds and june bugs out of the radiator. 78% open is better than 59% open.
McNichols.com wants me to purchase a full sheet 3'x10'. Probably would do 4 cars at least ($100) I'm going to go with the Custom Car Grills.com as it comes in powder coat black. Jim
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Yes but what I am saying is that 78% with 3/8" holes will flow more air than 78% with 1/4" holes. If both have the same 78% open area, the bigger hole flows better. And since airflow is exponential, it flows better (or the other flows worse) the faster you go.
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Hi guys, just wanted to chime in on this topic since I just finished all my grill installs, so I kept it simple and got my mesh from home depot, yup! 27''x 8' diamond pattern mesh for just $8.00 and 6''x 3' gutter grill hex mesh for just $8.00 and these in my opinion rival the real deal oem stuff for Diablo, just add some coats of flat black paint, job done!
http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/2014-05-30192012_zpscd2fef9b.jpg.html (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/2014-05-30192012_zpscd2fef9b.jpg.html)
http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/2014-06-02013241_zpsd75c99b7.jpg.html (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/2014-06-02013241_zpsd75c99b7.jpg.html)
http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/2014-05-31135613_zpsed2e8bd6.jpg.html (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/2014-05-31135613_zpsed2e8bd6.jpg.html)
http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/2014-06-06004952_zpsb4c53377.jpg.html (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/2014-06-06004952_zpsb4c53377.jpg.html)
http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/73.jpg.html (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/73.jpg.html)
http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/2014-06-06004808_zps7bc8d208.jpg.html (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/2014-06-06004808_zps7bc8d208.jpg.html)
http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/2014-05-29021503_zps68e7d446.jpg.html (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/2014-05-29021503_zps68e7d446.jpg.html)
Laterz
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78% = 78% Same air flow cfm if the cross sectional area is the same.
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No it is not the same airflow, it is the same open area but it is not the same airflow, bet you a beer on it or agree to disagree.
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I will disagree. I posted different types of grille material that will make a replica/clone build look good and almost oem. You can differ on what to use all you want. If you want to run 3/8" chickenwire, use it. It's your build and you can decide to make it anyway you want.
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I believe 78% is relative to the material used and not an all encompassing factor.
100 gph flow through a garden hose will have a far higher restriction than through a 2" hose and way more than a 4" hose.
Maybe the perspective is not what is being discussed directly, but I can see both sides of the discussion and you are both right from one perspective or another.
::K
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I'll be using this stuff!!! ::headbang
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Charley is right about this. When air passes through a hole or around an object, which it is doing when going through the screen, it creates swirls and eddies. This restricts flow. Even if the area is the same for both size holes, the larger holes will have less place to create these restrictions so more air flows. This is the principal used when making firearm suppressors. You want to create disturbances in the flow to slow it down. So a panel with larger holes will flow better than one with smaller holes even if the overall area is the same.
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Are we building replicas here or the next space shuttle? Should I dust off the anemometer for a science experiment?! ::toothy
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my friend
I did a lot of search for rear bumper grill for aventador
this one is very hard to find event the custom grill didn't have any one even close to it
so if any one can make it please send PM
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Replica - Merriam-Webster Online
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/replica (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/replica)
an exact or very close copy of something. Full Definition of REPLICA. 1. : an exact reproduction (as of a painting) executed by the original artist <a replica of this ..
If you want to do it right then I guess the conversation is valid....
::K
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So far, I have found pics of the Aventador with two different grille patterns. One was the hexagon mesh which I posted prior in this topic. The second is the grille pictured below. Is this the pattern that Mish022 is looking for? OEM $300/pair (used) on Ebay right now (http://www.ebay.com/itm/LAMBORGHINI-AVENTADOR-SIDE-VENTILATION-GRILLS-OEM-470825327B-470825328B-SET-/261471850064?_trksid=p2054897.l5659 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/LAMBORGHINI-AVENTADOR-SIDE-VENTILATION-GRILLS-OEM-470825327B-470825328B-SET-/261471850064?_trksid=p2054897.l5659)). OEM $170 each White Racing Products (http://www.whiteracingproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1459&products_id=942424 (http://www.whiteracingproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1459&products_id=942424)).
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01Lambiero thanks a lot for the good links you posted
unfortunately the seller in ebay already sold the left side grill and I don't want to buy one side and keep looking for one side :(
if any one have the same set OEM for both side with same price please let me know by PM
thanks
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You do not have to dust anything off, the temp gauge will tell you soon enough. I believe this is true whether it is a space shuttle or a replica or a semi-replica in between. Looking back at the original post here, and everything since, my one and only point was that any mesh with 1/4" holes will not flow well. And adding a bigger fan is still asking it to suck a milkshake through a straw. It also does not matter to me if it is made as an exact copy or chicken wire, just use a mesh large enough to flow, 78% is not always 78%. I learned that the hard way, just trying to pass it along. At the risk of getting my head chopped off again, I have a second suggestion. I used that reference since we were talking about chicken wire. Someone purchase one $170 Ebay grille, scan it and also reverse image the scan. Now spend a few bucks in material and 3-D print the plastic grilles. Sell a few copies at a reasonable price and make enough on this one project to pay for the $999 desktop printer. I will donate the scan time. I would do this myself but since the printer demo last week and seeing how Boeing is using this to print Titanium engine rotors, and realizing that printing a complete chassis is doable with no joints and no labor, I am focused on a larger machine. A fringe benefit is that this also solves the debate on this thread about accurate or close.
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special thanks to 01Lambiero for helping me with the aventador grills
yesterday I made my order finally :)
now I don't have any problem with the grill
I have the OEM for the rear bumper and I can make copy of it identical for the side and front bumper
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01Lambiero,
Do you know where to buy the honey comb mesh in the third pic down that you posted?
I am looking for some like that to build my own grills.
Thanks
Mike
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Mike;
That third picture looks like the stretched sheet plate that you can get at most metal supply shops. Just clean it up and either powder coat it or paint and you will have the same look. I need some mesh under my engine lid vents on my Ferrari 308 build and I was going to add it to under my front fender and trunk vents as well to clean up the underneath.
In Canada it is even harder to find than in the States. I have been trying to find some of the hexagon mesh that started with the original question here in Western Canada for a few weeks now. Nothing available here and they would have to order up from the States. All the metal shops I talked to said that they would have to call for a quote as they don't normally stock it. I had one shop say they ordered a sheet about 7 years ago and it cost about $300 CDN back then.
I found a mcnicol warehouse in Seattle that will sell me a sheet for just under $100 US but it would cost me another $200+ to go get it. Shipping up to Canada would be out of this world. Taking the sheet from the warehouse in Seattle to the Seattle Clipper ferry shipping dock downtown Seattle was quoted at $115USD. So $215USD +tax + ferry shipping costs and duties to Canada....... I also got quotes locally for about $600 to have a sheet custom made...... Shouldn't be this hard to find hex mesh........
That third picture of the stretched sheet is looking better all the time.....
Cheers
Don
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Hang on to your mouse!!! It's abs/plastic just like OEM?? and it's on Ebay.ca. Must be your good fortune day.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/UNIVERSAL-3D-HONEYCOMB-ABS-PLASTIC-BLACK-MESH-GRILL-120-X-40-CM-/321205146035? (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/UNIVERSAL-3D-HONEYCOMB-ABS-PLASTIC-BLACK-MESH-GRILL-120-X-40-CM-/321205146035?)
Jim
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That still looks like expanded mesh but in abs. They don't show any straight on photos.
Don, I might have a line on what you are looking for, drop me a line and maybe a few more specifics.
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I have got some killer steel hex screen thru Mcmaster carr. You have to buy a whole sheet but its the real deal. Looks just the same as what pontiac used under the fiero deck lid vents. ::K
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I tried to replicate the LP670 mesh in ms Paint to see if there was more than one dimension and that it was not flat. It looks like it has 3 levels like a washboard. Mish03 will have to tell us when he gets his grilles.
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hi
01Lambiero yes I agree its not only one levels
next week I suppose receive my grill , then I will be ready to answer any questions you want
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Just for everyone's info.
I took bluefiero88's advice about McMaster-Carr and ordered 2 sheets pf aluminum and 1 sheet of steel hex mesh for my project. It cost about $40 US each sheet and only $25 US to ship from Eastern US to Victoria BC Canada. Pretty hard to get much further away from each other and stay in North America........ :) That is by far the cheapest shipping I have ever seen for parts coming from the US.... It was overnight shipped through Purolator at ground rates and I had NO duties or brokerage to pay.
The sheets arrived about an hour ago in perfect condition so McMaster-Carr is the way to go for me from now on. Excellent service throughout.
Cheers
Don