LamboClone - The Premier Site for Lamborghini Replica Builders
How To - Tips => Heating and Cooling => Topic started by: mhotmarkx1 on June 12, 2016, 06:17:29 AM
-
Hey all, can someone sketch me an efficient cooling system for the roadster. Please show hoses, tubes and connections. I keep building too much pressure and separating my pipes from rubber hoses.
I nned to see if my plumbing needs to be rerouted. thanks
-
I did mine like this but keep in mind the Murcie muffler took lot of space for routing . body is mounted now N/P with over heating thanks to Spal Fans.
-
Thanks, i am trying to evaluate the entire system. Do you have a sketch of your water flow form start to finish?
-
Building pressure in the cooling system is not a sign of a bad cooling system, it is a sign of engine compression entering the system from a bad head gasket.
-
Not exactly what i wanted to hear. How can i check this. pull the plugs and do a compression test?
-
I think that you left out the meat and potatoes on this one. Where is the sketch of YOUR system including the engine? What are the temps that you are running? Are you building up pressure during warm up? We can only guess as to what your needs are. Pictures are a big help also. An excellent tool to purchase is a laser temp gun.
01
-
Will scan my sketch tomorrow and upload.
-
Not exactly what i wanted to hear. How can i check this. pull the plugs and do a compression test?
No, a compression test is effected by the condition of the rings and valves. I think you meant a leak down test anyway, but still the condition of the rings and valves will make it an ineffective diagnosis. Warm the engine then do a leak down check on the radiator. Be careful, if it is severe, too much fluid will be leaked into the cylinder and the rod will bend like a twig when it hits the fluid and hydro locks. The overall layout of the cooling system is important but not for this problem. It can go to China and back and you never said anything about overheating or cooling problems. Your problem is too much pressure coming into a supposedly sealed system from an outside source. But how can it be building enough pressure to blow a hose off before it blows the cap pressure or burst a hose?
-
sorry if this is a double post, having trouble making post-
What engine do you have? On my LS4 I have the water lines ran in a series- coming out of the outlet on the water pump to the top side of the passenger side radiator. Comming out of the bottom passenger side radiator cross's over in the rear trunk area to the top of the drivers side radiator, out the bottom of the drivers side back across the trunk area and back to the inlet side of the motor. Had it this way on my sbc also, worked real good this way until I put a bigger turbo on it and in the heat of the texas summers it would start going upwards of 200ish. I like to run my temps in the 175-180 area so I added a 3rd radiator under the car between the rear fire wall and the motor. It runs off the in/out ports for the heater core. With a small electric fan it will cool really well.
If your running 2 rear radiators or even one in the front (fiero) and its over heating you gotta make sure you burp the system real good. I have little bleeder ports at the top of each of my rear radiators to bleed mine. If you dont have any bleeder ports just remove the upper hoses and fill with coolant untill it starts comming out.
-
Just a few probable causes: Air in the cooling system, crack in a cylinder head, bad head gasket, foreign material in coolant passages, thermostat installed upside down, bad water pump, radiator(s) too small, hoses too small diameter, plugged hoses, insufficient air flow through radiators, plugged radiator, lack of bleeders, lack of purge tank, improper routing of coolant hoses, etc. Diagrams have already been posted on this forum. Please use the "Search" option.
01
-
So car starts, runs, drives for around 30 min's without any issues with temp gauge at 90, then she starts to overheat up to 120(max). I pull over and park and then the hose connected to the pipe from the thermostat separates (coolant everywhere) In the picture see the point next to Cap 1. I thought the hose clamp was loose, tightened, same result, replaced, same result. I also replaced Cap 1 as the psi was too high. i thought all was well. Drove for 3 days back and forth to work. Tonight i stepped on her coming home, parked in my garage and Bam again. Please see attached drawing. This is as best as i can see and advise if this is correctly routed or what i should do. Engine has 579 miles only
-
ohh, and The engine is a 350 V8 carbureted.
-
Suggestions: If you really need 2 caps, make one a 15# and run the overflow hose to the overflow tank. Use a 18# for your second cap (no overflow hose needed). No overflow hose to your purge tank. Purge tank must be mounted at the high point in the cooling system. No connector to purge tank from radiator supply (hot) or radiator return (cool) lines. ALL TUBING WITH HOSE CONNECTIONS MUST HAVE A BEAD ROLLED ON EACH END to keep the hose connections on with clamps. BOTH RADIATORS MUST HAVE A AIR BLEED DEVICE AT THE TOP TANK to bleed out air pockets that will collect there. Hope that this helps you and once the air pockets are gone, you will have a good cooling setup. (that laser temp gun will help you a lot. Ebay cheap even though they might not be too accurate)
01
-
mhotmarkx1..... Please post pic of you Diablo. I am very curious of which car you wind up buying, By the way congrats.
-
so you have a waterpump mounted on the motor and a inline electric water pump also? If so put the electric water pump between the two radiators. That might help, thats how I had mine when I had a sbc. But I never had any cooling problems once all the air pockets was burped out of the system. Personally I think you have way too many overflow hoses. You really just need one good working recovery/overflow tank. here is a diagram I found-
-
I purchased Dwights Lambo
-
Very Nice!!!!
Is this a IFG kit based? Please post interior pic too
Congrats again
-
Tonypaul. thanks for the diagram. Does it really matter where the elect pump is? yes i have one on the engine and an electric one. see diagram.
how about the heater core hoses? i appreciate your help. thanks.
I also found earls bead roll tool online and will remove the 3 pipes and add a bead to prevent hose slippage. any other suggestions?
-
don't spend money on bead tool, since you have to take them off, take a Mig and weld bead on it. that's what i did . Workie good.
-
Tonypaul. thanks for the diagram. Does it really matter where the elect pump is? yes i have one on the engine and an electric one. see diagram.
how about the heater core hoses? i appreciate your help. thanks.
I also found earls bead roll tool online and will remove the 3 pipes and add a bead to prevent hose slippage. any other suggestions?
I had my electric water pump right between the 2 radiators, about 1/2 way within the cooling flow. I bet your problem is just needing to get the air out of the system. Can you see the upper side of the radiator tanks if there is a little plug to take out? If you either have little ports at the top of your radiators or radiator caps on each radiator or just take off the upper hose (1 at a time starting with the radiator closest to the water pump on the motor.) Jack up the rear of the car as high as you can get it. Fill slowly at the radiator till coolant starts coming out the 1st radiator bleed port or put upper hose back on. Fill at the second radiator till coolant comes out the top put in the plug or put the upper hose back on. Make sure you have a small hole drilled into the flat part of your thermostat. Below is what the bleed ports look like on my radiators.
-
My suggestions:
Add in vent tubes at the top of each radiator. 1/4" NPT ports will work.
Run these two ports to a new pressure reservoir. Get rid of your zero pressure reservoir tank.
By adding in the pressure reservoir you will stop all air build up in the system (steam).
The pressure reservoir MUST have a drain port (large bottom port going to a low spot in the cooling system)
The pressure reservoir MUST have a upper port (or 2) (these run to the top of each rad - 1/4"NPT)
The pressure reservoir MUST have a upper port venting the thermostat housing as well.
By doing this you will ensure that any air in the system vents back to the pressure tank creating steam on the top side of the tank. This allows clean liquid to be forced back into the system through the large bottom port.
Now, get the correct system radiator cap.
https://jimdinner.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/radiator-caps-explained/ (https://jimdinner.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/radiator-caps-explained/)
If you have another rad cap in the system, be sure to plug the vent port.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-dqqhWQo_8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-dqqhWQo_8)
https://jimdinner.wordpress.com/2012/07/07/coolant-expansion-tank-revisited/ (https://jimdinner.wordpress.com/2012/07/07/coolant-expansion-tank-revisited/)
Good luck.
-
Thanks Jim, always appreciated, can you draw a diagram or modify my sketch so i am certain. Greatly appreciated.
-
Jim, that is a very "Cool" idea! Why get rid of the zero pressure tank?
-
I do not have a termostat on 3.8 runs good
Yesterday we had over 30c heat and I had it run for good half hour in side the garage with out any air flow . & 195f spal kicked in and 3 min was down to 180. And again in and out.
-
Hi Jim, can you look at my sketch and modify it. I am uncertain.Thanks
-
::scratch
-
I know nothing about mechanicals stuff ,but why are the rads side ways ? does it matter? ::scratch
-
Radiators hooked up in series???Not a good idea IMO.
-
Jim, that is a very "Cool" idea! Why get rid of the zero pressure tank?
That is an antiquated system in my opinion. We are doing things that are not normal. Nobody can tell me that our cooling systems will work just like any other car.
Our air flow is restricted in so many ways and at speed we are creating a vacuum behind the car which also restricts air flow.
A zero pressure tank only collects fluid while the coolant is heated and expanding.
Steam is created in our cars. Where does the steam go? It travels to the highest points. A water pump will never be more powerful than stream.
How do we get rid of the steam at the top of the engine and radiators?
We install vents. Where do the vents vent to? They could go anywhere but we want to collect the liquid that goes with it.
So, if it went to a zero pressure tank we would need a really large tank because all the coolant would spill into it eventually.
If we had a zero pressure tank that sent coolant back to the engine as it was expelled it would no longer be a zero pressure tank, it would be a pressure tank.
The pressure tank does not need to be filled to the top. It should be down a little to allow for expansion when hot.
Most people don't have a zero pressure tank attached to the 2nd, 3rd or 4th radiator cap vent port because no coolant spills out of there normally.
If you have more than one radiator cap in the system picture this....
When a hot engine cools it creates a vacuum in the system. A "vented" or "closed" radiator cap is typically used with a zero pressure tank. This allows for coolant to be sucked into the system during the cool down period. It there is no tank on one of the caps necks then it will only suck in air. Air is then going to become steam.
This is why I am recommending a pressure tank with only ONE radiator cap in the system. This cap should be a "non-vented or open" cap.
https://jimdinner.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/radiator-caps-explained/
-
I have never had problems with radiators connected in series. I have only had problems with overheating when they are connected in parallel.
I had to work on a roadster built by someone that knew only how to paint and it could only run for about 15 minutes until is spilled all coolant onto the ground.
By simply switching the hoses to series it would run longer but still overheat. By adding in vent ports and a pressure tank it cured the overheating issues.
IMO if your cooling system works in parallel, great! If it does not, consider series to fix it.
-
There are pros and cons to both series and parallel systems. Series systems tend to be much easier to set up, while parallel systems are generally more efficient. Having said that...since most people end up with more radiator area than is necessary in a dual set up the slight improvement in efficiency of a parallel system would likely not be relevant...a series system is probably the best bet for most people since you are less likely to end up with problems. If you are going for a high performance system properly designed by an expert (i.e. race car set up), then parallel would be the better choice.
-
Here is how I make mine. It works.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7692/27261580853_85e315a676_b.jpg)
-
There is some talk about a 2nd inline water pump. Isn't there a possibility of circulating the coolant too quickly through the radiators thus not cooling properly? My thinking is that if the radiator(s) inlet is located close to the same level as the engine outlet, proper coolant circulation can be handled with the oem pump. My $0.02
01
-
01, the capability of a water pump is determined by something called "Head". It can pump water a long ways and uphill a little bit or it can pump a little ways and uphill a lot more. In a typical system, water does not go very far and it goes uphill the height of the radiator. Looking at Jim's diagram, water must be pumped twice the height of the radiator and farther as well, doubling the head requirement. Having said that and knowing a little about GM mechanical pumps, increasing the head requirement from 2 to 4 when the rating is 12 doesn't make much difference. The thermostat will more determine the amount of water flowing. As I have said earlier, removing the thermostat lets water flow too fast for cooling. Also everyone pay close attention to what Jim is saying about the radiator caps. There are vented and non-vented and they look just alike but the correct one must be used.
-
How about it, mhotmarkx1. Where are your pics? Found your cure yet?
-
I have a Diablo VT. I could drive it below 50 and it would stay around 180-200. Once going 60 mph or more, it would get too hot. I took it to the shop and was told it did not have a thermistate on it. They put one in and flushed the sysem. It still is running hot. Now the average temp is at 200. My radiator is in the front with an electric fan. Is there a solution???
-
::bounceAfter reading several posts on here, I took my Diablo Roadster to a specialty racing shop. My problem was after running for 30 min under 50 mph or 10 min at 60mph i was going over 235 degrees. I dont know what front ends you have on yours but I had only 2 round openings to force air to the radiator. With the down pressure of air on the hood, this reduced the air flow to the radiator. We made a 6 inch by 3 inch opening between the two round holes. They added a pan from this new opening to the radiator. Total cost..$800 with labor. The front end still looks great and best of all. Im running 165 degrees at 70-75 mph maintained speeds. Now the highest Ive seen it go was 190 while in heavy traffic stop and go in 96 degree weather.
-
Do you have any photos??? of the holes and how your system is schematically set up.
-
I dont have any yet. I will get some in the next day or two and then will post it for you.
-
if you need, I can do a video and email it to you.
-
That would be awesome. I can't wait.thx
-
This site wont let me post the video due to format issues. Send me your email addresss and i will forward it to you
-
mhotmarkx1@aol.com
-
I would like see too , just curious
You tube it and post here link
Thanks