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How To - Tips => Engine & Transmission => Topic started by: Tallon on December 21, 2012, 06:52:23 PM
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I was looking in to how I'd get my cv axles made and I was quoted $1200
from driveshaftshop. I need axles for a passat trans to c4 vette hubs, is this a fair price or would I be better off welding my own?
It is more than I expected.
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well i did my audi to S10 shafts total cost was like 200 dollars for machine,weld and balance.
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Get a pair of passat cv shafts and steel c4 half shafts or drive shafts that share the same U-joint. cut off both ends you don't need. Then have your machine shop make a hardened steel bushing that fits inside of the half shaft with a bored hole that fits the cv shaft. Adjust and cut lengths to obtain the correct overall length, then fire up the miller.... The bushing should be really cheap.
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I can't remember, but you have to use different type of welding on those shafts. my S10 the shafts are hardern steel and audi not . Jim Dinner knows what the shop used . not just mig it.
http://s849.beta.photobucket.com/user/guywithlambo/media/roadster%20build/weldedaxles001.jpg.html?sort=6&o=21#/user/guywithlambo/media/roadster%20build/weldedaxles001.jpg.html?sort=6&o=21&_suid=135618725816306247274876290798 (http://s849.beta.photobucket.com/user/guywithlambo/media/roadster%20build/weldedaxles001.jpg.html?sort=6&o=21#/user/guywithlambo/media/roadster%20build/weldedaxles001.jpg.html?sort=6&o=21&_suid=135618725816306247274876290798)
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TIG would be better.
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I think that we have it covered. Throw the corvette half shaft away. Go with the solid shaft which will mate with the Passat shaft with a little work. Your drive shaft specialist should be able to lathe it up so that it will be straight before welding.
Jim
I didn't realize others couldn't share their ideas.
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I have the passat trans only, it didn't come with any cv joints and i didn't know about the u-joints, I assumed I could get cv type axles since all the other vette models had cv axles. and the timken hubs I got, I thought I had more options
I like the idea of putting the two together, it looks very awkward but if you think it will work why not
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check Sebastian on KC how he did C4 to Porsche
http://www.kitcentral.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=10126&sid=855084cdade933d0e7c075db7bc0dec0 (http://www.kitcentral.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=10126&sid=855084cdade933d0e7c075db7bc0dec0)
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Ah I forgot he had a cw chassis, good idea
thanks
i'm gonna see what Jdinner says
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its kind of the same idea they have on kitcentral
just trying to figure out how they used ujoint on the transmission side
cayman didn't use ujoint did it?
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Here is another way to do it and it works amazing. Zero issues on my yellow Diablo 6.0.
I have 1991 BMW 750 rear CV Shafts. You can buy them fairly cheap. ($75.00 each here)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DRIVETRAIN-Axle-Shaft-1988-1989-1990-1991-1992-1993-1994-BMW-750iL-E32-/280970570591?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item416b26ab5f&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DRIVETRAIN-Axle-Shaft-1988-1989-1990-1991-1992-1993-1994-BMW-750iL-E32-/280970570591?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item416b26ab5f&vxp=mtr)
I made up and welded the GM wheel end spline with an old Audi flange. The BMW axle ends are identical to the Audi ends so they bolt up perfectly. If you are mounting onto a Porsche trans it might need a simple machined adapter.
If you do it this way, any parts supplier can get you an axle off the shelf.
Since I bought the whole BMW for $600.00 and used the engine from it along with many other parts the axles where pretty much free. The machining to get the flange onto the GM spline cost me $300.00.
My outer adapter;
(http://stweb.peelschools.org/sssweb/TTI-WEB/cars/pictures/DriveAxleParts/diablobuildoct4058.jpg)
Axles installed looking from underneath;
(http://stweb.peelschools.org/sssweb/TTI-WEB/cars/pictures/RandomBuildPictures/underviewofdriveline2.jpg)
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Cheap would be awesome because with all those parts it's up to $500 with the new parts not including the used axle parts. I'll probably wait and do it when I get my engine mounted instead.
I don't know if my audi electronics will even work yet.
034motorsport couldn't even help with it
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Hi Tallon, Here's another idea. GM Blazer front axle shaft cut, resplined, and snap ring groove to fit into the Passat CV joint. Maybe a machinist in our forum can tell you what that would cost. What can you get used Passat axles for? My local U-Wrench-It has axles for $29 each. Also about your CPU, you can contact Wester's Garage in Tilley, Alberta and see if they can help you. Jim
(http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab295/lambeiro/Blazeraxleshaft.jpg)
(http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab295/lambeiro/PassatAxle.jpg)
(http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab295/lambeiro/TallonAxleShaft.jpg)
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I usually try to get any parts on ebay or new parts from online stores, I really don't live around any salvage yards or machinists so I can't imagine how far I'd have to go to find specialists.
Thanks I'll check them out
I've sent a lot of emails out, it's unbelievable how hard it is to find info on these cars. I guess it's just because it's not a common setup, so no matter how experienced the specialists are, they still reply "Don't know." Can't imagine how they got to where they are not wanting to try new things.
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I made some parts for a customer who is using the 01X transmission with the Corvette hubs. He found BMW axles that would fit. There are some photos of the parts I made on my facebook page. www.facebook.com/aeautomotivemachining (http://www.facebook.com/aeautomotivemachining)
Email me at eric@kitcarchassis and I can get you the part number of the axles. They were pretty inexpensive from O'Reillys.
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Hey Eric, thanks for the info
C5 hubs use same splines as c4? I thought they didn't
although the hubs you pictured look the same
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I think they are the same but cannot say with 100% certainty that they are.
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oh because c5 vette uses cv axles I think and I could just use those if that's the case but I thought I knew they weren't the same.
Was also thinking I could replace c4 hubs with c5 but looking at the specs on timken they are too different in dimensions despite them looking similar
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Am I undersstanding that the BMW axles work directly with the C style hubs?
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The outer CV joint stub shaft has the same splines on the BMW axle as the Corvette hub but the shaft is not long enough so I make an extended nut to fit. There are photos on my facebook page.
www.facebook.com/aeautomotivemachining (http://www.facebook.com/aeautomotivemachining)
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AEAUTO, I could not send you a PM.
And I REALLY!!!!!!!! don't do F***BOOK >:(
How much do you charge for a set of the nuts?
Phil
707/ 479-7000
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Any chance you could tell me the BMW make/model and/or part number for the shafts that are used for this setup? Thanks.
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There are several axles that will work depending on the length you need. Email me at eric@kitcarchassis.com and I can send you a list of numbers.
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Thank you. I just emailed you, but I'm posting here, as well, in case anyone else needs this info. I'm not sure of the proper measuring points, but from the Audi transaxle mounting flange to the area of the C4 hub I'm pointing at in the attached picture is 27". I'll post part numbers and pics when installed.
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Tallon,
Listen to what Dinner and Eric are telling you. I am the customer that Eric is referring to. After also getting a quote from The Driveshaft Shop, I spent about three hours at the local O'reileys going through every CV axle ever made. Knowing that the Corvette hub was 28 splines, I looked for this end with a flange style other end. The bolt pattern on the flange did not matter, I knew that an adapter plate would be a lot less than custom axles. I found that full size BMW axles were the solution and available in various lengths as follows.
60-1319 21 3/8
60-1429 25
60-3027 18 1/4
60-6012 20 1/2
60-6281 27
60-9034 22 1/16
60-9037 22 11/16
60-9063 22 7/16
60-9120 24 5/16
60-9127 24 1/4
60-9272 26 1/4
As Dinner said, they are under $75 and are a healthy axle. Find one that is close and have Eric make up the difference with his plates. While you are at it have him machine the speedo sprocket sensor into the adapter and take the $120 that you saved on that part and it should cover the total axle cost. Now spend a few hundred with Eric and you are done. No fabricating, simple, economical, and easy.
There is an article that I wrote in Kitcar Builder Magazine a few issues ago about those hubs and some of this.
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Completely by chance, a friend had the front half shafts from a 1993 Chevy Blazer laying around in his garage. So, those came free :) They fit the Corvette C4 hubs perfectly, but they are short, and I'm thinking they are too short to make the adapter at the transaxle end (almost 8" shy). If I'm wrong, let me know. I've attached photos of the Blazer's axle next to the C4's outer end (disregard the slip yoke attached to it - that was another idea).
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If you can find an axle that has the right splines to fit the inner spyder of the Blazer CV joint you can use it. Those spline sizes are pretty universal so there should be one available. You don't want an adapter 8 inches long.
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Thank you. I thought that might be the case. I will try to visit the wrecking yard tomorrow and see if I can find a longer center section that will fit. Any idea which cars I might start looking at?
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You are going to have a hard time finding anything as long as it looks like you will need. I would start with the C5/C6 Corvette. Other than that the only thing I can think of that might be long enough would be the full size BMW or Audi cars. You might try these guys http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/buggy/trans/buggytran1.htm (http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/buggy/trans/buggytran1.htm)
and see if those axles will have the right spline and you can use a 930 CV joint at the transmission. What transmission are you using?
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I'm using the Audi 016. I just found this image on Google which appears to show the Audi transaxle and the same inner CV as that from the Chevy. Eric (below) could make the adapter between the CV and the transaxle. So, I guess it really only comes down to finding the longer shaft (insert "that's what she said" joke here :) ) or finding a shaft that has the correct splines on both ends to replace the inner Chevy CV with either an Audi or Porsche one. I'm fine with either option, but I think simply finding the longer shaft to work with both the Chevy inner and outer CVs would be easier and just have the adapter made.
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That photo is mine. The axle is from a second generation RX7 turbo.
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Does the RX7 outer CV fit the C4 hub? Also, did you make that shifter? I'd be interested in that, as well. I really like the brackets it utilizes.
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No, I don't think it will fit the C4 hub. I use it with the Mazda hub in a Thunderbird knuckle. Yes. I make that shifter. Email me for details and price. eric@kitcarchassis.com
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Tallon, sorry for the late entry on this topic, but I've just joined. Are those O-Reilly part numbers you're showing on the axles? I've been searching since I read this thread, and I can only find BMW axles listed by year/model. I need somehow to correlate the numbers you've shown so I'll know what to search for (used, of course!). Thanks!
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If you are using the BMW axles contact 76mx here on the forum and he has all the information on them.
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Let me try to explain this again. I went to O'Reileys and asked to use the A-! Cardone reference books (They are used to strange requests from me). These are two volumes of about three inches thick each listing all of the C-V axles in the world. Knowing that the Corvette hub was 28 spline, I first eliminated down to all axles with this outer joint. Then I narrowed down to all axles that were a reasonable length, which eliminated Blazer and others. Now I know that there are several styles of inner joint and the Audi uses the flange type. I then shortened the list to this inner joint. Three hours later I had the list mentioned earlier of the axles. They are all BMW full size cars. Look in the salvage yards all you want, these are the only axles in the world that fit all of the criteria. Unfortunately there was not a flange type on the short list with the correct bolt pattern but this was the least of my worries. I knew that Aeauto could make adapter plates for me and that the thickness of the plate could be used to fine tune the overall axle length. I also knew that he could machine the speedo sender into the plate and eliminate an addittional $120 part, which would just about pay for the plates. With my OEM pricing, those axles are $50 each brand new. Now I can do the math, a thousand bucks for custom axles and a $120 speedo sender, plus the time and effort, or a few hundred and done. This seems pretty cut and dry to me, I do not see why any other option is worth chasing, but I can tell you that those are the only axles in the world that work with all of the requirements. You are welcome to my hours of research if you would like to use it.