LamboClone - The Premier Site for Lamborghini Replica Builders
The Forum => Other Topics => Topic started by: Tusabes on January 02, 2013, 06:10:49 AM
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Build it on a camaro convertible chassis
I'm confident it can be done by lowering the windshield to sit farther forward and lower (ronin tried this ) and eliminate the pregnant front end look
You could also avoid a chassis stretch and drivetrain swap that way as it will have a ls1 and six speed
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The steel welding line is what carries the voltage through the whip though, if you change it to teflon you would also have to create a new path for the voltage.
The spool gun works because its a short distance between the Alum wire spool and the welding point, the wire doesnt have to be pushed very far through the tube, which remains straight and doesnt allow the Alum wire to bend causing kinks and jams. Most whips are 6+ feet long though, and are able to bend and flex like a water hose. Pushing Alum wire from behind through 6 feet of bent and twisting teflon tubing is a recipe for disaster though, the wire is not rigid enough to hold straight for that distance without jamming. I hope for your sake it works though, put a video up on YouTube when you get the thing going. You are not the first person to try this though, and I think if it were possible welder manufacturers would offer an Aluminum ready whip to fit in place of the steel one.
Kinda makes you wonder why they went through all that work designing the spool gun when all they had to do is replace the guide tube on their existing steel whips LOL!
Here are some examples of people already made it work. The only draw back with this method is that the wire tends to move around alot, you get a lot of walking when trying to get your pool going. might be the reason why manufactures didn't go with this method, but it can be done.
http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=18489 (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=18489)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWmHYlFxK4Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWmHYlFxK4Y)
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I will not be building it for any donor, I hate using donors. So much crap that you have to cut off and rework to get the body to sit right and alot of things need to be relocated to make it work. I'll be building a tube chassis for it, maybe an all aluminum one or just dom tube haven't decided yet.
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First off I'm no newb to the kitcar industry,
can show your past work KitCar?
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Build it on a camaro convertible chassis
I'm confident it can be done by lowering the windshield to sit farther forward and lower (ronin tried this ) and eliminate the pregnant front end look
You could also avoid a chassis stretch and drivetrain swap that way as it will have a ls1 and six speed
Ronin did a lot talking about doing this yet we've never seen anything proving that he actually started or finished anything. The guy seemed to suffer for the "littles" (little money, little toolbox, little time, little experience, little maturity, little patience and little respect for anyone who tried to really help him).
The only example that I'm aware of is the CarKit project that looks completely out of proportion in my personal opinion.
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I will not be building it for any donor, I hate using donors. So much crap that you have to cut off and rework to get the body to sit right and alot of things need to be relocated to make it work. I'll be building a tube chassis for it, maybe an all aluminum one or just dom tube haven't decided yet.
That would be an excellent build ;)
Build it on a camaro convertible chassis
I'm confident it can be done by lowering the windshield to sit farther forward and lower (ronin tried this ) and eliminate the pregnant front end look
You could also avoid a chassis stretch and drivetrain swap that way as it will have a ls1 and six speed
Seriously? Keeping the engine in front? What would you put in the back, a rumble seat?
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Aventedor coupe. I guess im too late.
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Build it on a camaro convertible chassis
I'm confident it can be done by lowering the windshield to sit farther forward and lower (ronin tried this ) and eliminate the pregnant front end look
You could also avoid a chassis stretch and drivetrain swap that way as it will have a ls1 and six speed
Seriously? Keeping the engine in front? What would you put in the back, a rumble seat?
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Just the radiators moved to the rear and a nice huge luggage area under the rear engine cover. AD posted pics of a Sebring bodied lp640 that did not look pregnant and had the engine in front - with the sloped fenders of the aventador providing more room for the Camaro shock towers, I'm confident that moving the windshield and relocating radiators to the back can fix the front end , eliminate the stretch and power train swap issues
If I had the mechanical skills id try it but I don't
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I think the whole point of these cars are the mid engine design though, and a big reason people build them. I'm sure with alot of work, you could build a front engine Lambo replica, but what would be the point? Why would you want to go through all that extra time, work and money just so you can have a LS1 and 6 speed in the front?
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I think the whole idea of using a front engine car with the correct or "close enough" wheelbase is less time work and money !! Not more.
- no drivetrain swap since OEM ls 1 is sufficient . That saved $5-10k right there.
- no stretch so the car is much much safer
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I thought that this model fuse put this to rest a long time ago. You can clearly see the differences and where the GM F body will not clear the body. This is more than cosmetic and it's a matter of where and how the firewall and engine sits in the frame. As said before, this would be like trying to putting the skin of a lion on the body of an elephant and it's the places where it won't cover that end up making the car look bad. If you are looking at saving $5,000 by going this route and it's the major reason for doing so, some friendly advice is to rethink building a Lamborghini replica because $5,000 doesn't get you very far in this hobby (personal experience has proven this about $30,000 ago). I continue to read about "stretched Fiero's" becoming a safety concern and I can only suspect these comments are made from a lack of knowing what's involved to do this correctly. I cannot recall a singe story of someone having a frame break apart on them and we need to remember that most automobile frames are simple pressed stampings welded together to create a box. Most all of the stretch jobs that I've seen are actually on the side of "overbuilt" when compared with what GM used then or even uses today.
Thanks,
Chris
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Anyone ever try to pull a Camaro/Firebird engine out the bottom for repair? Better rethink skinning a Camaro with a repositioned windshield. However, if you had a removable windshield and front clip that might eliminate my concern.
Jim
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There is about six inches of room to reposition the windshield forward and lower before blocking the engine compartment .
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/fwfinance/65FC501D-43C5-4A61-887C-DA3B346B571C-723-000002C3D00BD5A2.jpg)
You lose the factory wiper position but it brings the windshield farther forward and lower to look like the lambo ,
see ronin video here at 1:55
http://youtu.be/SA6QGUktbnQ (http://youtu.be/SA6QGUktbnQ)
and it doesn't intrude into the engine compartments at all
In terms of that overlay view , the high side view mirror fender area is all hollow plastic in the camaro , to blend into the mirror profile , and will not interfere once the camaro fenders are removed
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Doesn't look worth the trouble at all
even if it were possible I don't see many being interested
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Dropping a firebird/camaro engine from the bottom is not much different than dropping a Fiero engine, but either way I don't like the look of a front engine Lambo.
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Excellent points Chris. If this is being done to save a little money (and yes, 5K is a little money in these builds) then you should really rethink getting into this hobby, especially when it comes to a Lambo.
Over the years I have seen dozens of people talking about doing front engine cars and thats about as far as it goes, with good reason.
I dont think there is a safety issue with building on a stretched Fiero, Chris is right when he says they come out stronger than they were before the stretch, and I too have never heard of anybodys build breaking apart at the extension or any other point.
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The camero is an awful donor, 1 the engine is in the wrong place, 2 firewalls too high, 3 shock tower is way too high and will need to be trimmed down or cut out completely. Moving the windshield forward doesn't change a thing. By the time your done making all these changes you'll be spending a ton of cash plus its going to end up looking very bad. Prime example is the Pontiac solstice murcielago build.
I for one rather build a chassis to fit the body not a body to fit the chassis. Once you start building a body to fit a certain chassis you loose alot of the former shape of the car that you are trying to replicate. You think that to yourself, oh i'll just cut a little bit here a little bit there, stretch this panel out, push this part in, make this wider, trim this smaller, by the time your done making all those changes it just ends up looking retarded. If you don't have money to begin with, don't even try bother getting into this type of hobby, I say hobby because you'll spend more money putting in to the build than making a profit from it.
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Apsara the solstice build was done by Z&M .and it's not a camaro donor .
There has been a Camaro as a donor for a murcielago and it looks good
http://youtu.be/Vj_5mEvrVFk (http://youtu.be/Vj_5mEvrVFk)
Now remember on a murcielago build , the front hood of the murcielago is very flat. However it's an entirely different story with the aventador . The aventador has raised "humps " in the center of the hood as well as the ends where the shock Towers go. This allows space for the shock towers and engine without the pregnant front end look .
Personally some of us prefer the engine in the front and actually want a car with bone stock mechanicals, that can be serviced at any GM dealer. and using a stock 25 year old fiero simply isnt powerful safe or modern enough for us.
I respect those doing custom mid engine swaps but some people do not want that , do not want custom parts that break and fail, and you need to respect that.
unfortunately there will be naysayers to the idea of a camaro based aventador until one actually gets built. And if a good one gets built , no one will admit their doubts were all wrong
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Tusabes You and Ronin with MM it is one and the same person?
I just can not believe that the idea of a donor Camaro can to master at least two people :)
I apologize for my English, I use a translator
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All of these videos below are front engine and claim to be replicas of Lamborghini models.
However, none look like what they claim it replicates.
Murci - Lambo replica with burn out (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W2yFe_iH3o#noexternalembed)
Gallardo - 2012 White Gallardo Replica (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehmgIxnXW8s#)
Aventador - 2012 Lamborghini Aventador Replica (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymd1qjwFJ2E#)
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I would hazard a guess that it all boils down to: Do you want to build a replica or do you just want to drive something that sort of looks like a facsimile. Each builder has the option to accept or reject the result of their builds. Some times I make adjustments as to oem because I want others to admire my work. Other times I may substitute a different part because it really doesn't suit my budget or is not that visible. I am a 44 year GM employee (retired) and my loyalty is to gm parts. Do I like puting a Mercedes part in my replica? SHOOT NO!! but I did it anyway due to the cost of OEM parts. I love to make parts that closely resemble oem. If you like the sound of your engine starting from the front of your steering wheel, have at it. BUT, when I turn my key and hear that Northstar twin overhead cam 32 valve engine fire up behind me, I love it. Ask jdinner if he gets that same feeling when he starts up his V-12 in his diablo. It's your ride. It's your build. In the end it's your decision because it's your wallet. Speaking of which, if it is overstuffed, I accept PayPal. ::headbang
Jim
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If you are determined to build on a new chassis because you have the correct wheelbase and the chassis is so much newer, go ahead and convert it to mid-engine. You will find it is a lot of work no matter which factory-built chassis you start with but you will at lest have the engine in the proper location.
Let us know how you do it.
RT
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First off I'm no newb to the kitcar industry, nore am I a dreamer that talks alot about doing things, anyways I just wanted to see what type of car people might want to see get built.
::zzzzz Any photos of past projects??
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::zzzzz Any photos of past projects??
Welcome! A7x is awesome ::rocker
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::zzzzz Any photos of past projects??
Welcome! A7x is awesome ::rocker
Avenged Seven Fold from St. Louis MO, welcome to the site. If you bored while waiting for pictures of previous projects, can you help fill in the time and provide pictures of your previous projects or current build?
Chris
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LOL, that "Murcie" looks good? I wouldnt care how good the car looks on the outside if the engine is in front.
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wow, this thread got totally hijacked and I'll contribute. To the dude that wants to build a front engine Aventador. My man, the only way you will prove it to anyone is to do it. Not showing pictures of camaros and where the windscreen will be etc. It's just one of those things that will have to be done first before anyone will believe you. All the previous attempts have pretty much failed for different reasons. So if you so strongly believe it......do it. Then it will be your opportunity to make believers out of non-believers. Remember, at one time everyone thought the world was flat. ::beers
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I may believe it but still won't like it
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All of these videos below are front engine and claim to be replicas of Lamborghini models.
However, none look like what they claim it replicates.
Murci - Lambo replica with burn out ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W2yFe_iH3o#noexternalembed[/url])
Gallardo - 2012 White Gallardo Replica ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehmgIxnXW8s#[/url])
Aventador - 2012 Lamborghini Aventador Replica ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymd1qjwFJ2E#[/url])
Gotta agree with you that the builder of these cars, just doesn't do a very good job in making them look like the real car. Note these are not camaro donors. He uses a gto or solstice as donors and they just don't look right
The mercy 4 video I posted from cki is much closer to looking like the real car and is built on a camaro , not a solstice or gto. of course the main problem with the mercy 4 is that the front end wound up looking pregnant . to clear the shock towers. This is due to the fact the front end if a murcie is flat and needed to be raised, but should not be a problem on the aventador which OEM has a raised hood area up the center and along the edges
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Tusabes You and Ronin with MM it is one and the same person?
I just can not believe that the idea of a donor Camaro can to master at least two people :)
I apologize for my English, I use a translator
Not the same person, but I agree , after seeing cki mercy 4 in the video i posted , that the camaro convertible chassis is a great choice for an aventador convertible replica . The dimensions are good, the top is already off on a convertible , the fenders unbolt easily, there's no stretching or engine swap needed. The biggest chassis modifucations is the windshield and relocation of radiators . All in all hundreds if hours and thousands if dollars will be saved on preparing the donor .
The thing we dont have is an aventador body yet, but if those producing the body kit design it to fit over the camaro convertible , it can look better than cki mercy 4.