Author Topic: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas  (Read 15438 times)

dratts

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Re: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2013, 04:03:59 PM »
My bat wings were actuated by Fiero head light motors when I bought it.  They have been trouble free.  I don't remember whether or not I installed  Rodney Dickmans kit in them.  I might have.  They are thermostatically operated plus actuated by a console button.  I did have a dead battery one morning.  I traced it to cat foot prints on the console.  I now cover the cockpit at night for just that reason.

BigPines

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Re: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2013, 03:40:41 PM »
Interesting stuff. I think Dustin's solution is perfectly reasonable. I would be a bit concerned about the extra weight of yet another sway bar but other than that, it should work quite well I think.

I think I'll poke around to find the same/similar actuator. Good actuators can actually be quite expensive. Typically, the faster they move, the weaker they are. While the more resistance/weight they can withstand, the slower they move. To find an actuator that can handle a lot of weight resistance (to handle any downward force on the wings), moves relatively quickly, and isn't quite noisy, could be a challenge. I don't think the OEM wings move very fast anyway so that may not be a big deal.

There is also the potential need for limit switches. I assume the OEM parts have them built in.
If I don't have time to do it right, when will I have time to do it over?

No Bull

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Re: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2013, 01:47:51 PM »
I doubt Lamborghini had these actuators custom built. Most linear actuators are built by one of a few companies. These exact actuators are probably available from another source. I assume you only found this picture and you don't have the actual parts to try to find some identifying manufacturer markings?

The actuators pictured before are actual OEM Murci / LP640 parts.  I'm sure they are made by some other company and they have other applications.  The carry a Lamborghini part number but I'm assuming this is because they utilize a Audi / VW electrical connector that justifies a unique part number for this particular application. 

One interesting thing to note is how high up these connect (up by the hinges) which minimizes the required travel of the actuator arm but also speeds up the opening and closing of the wings.  This can make for a weaker wing and I've seen cars that the wings were broken on.  I believe that it was the roadster bat wings that had an additional lip on the rear of the wing to help keep it in place when the wings are up and the car is at speed (typically closed at speed since the car is running cooler then and they are retracted for less drag).

Chris
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 01:55:25 PM by No Bull »

usmc_butler

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Re: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2013, 01:31:30 PM »
you have too many parts that will fail during use. why not keep things simple and just use an electronic actuator? just daisy chain both of them together, hook it up to a switch and power supply and your done.

Too many parts ::study? A bar that connects to the wings and 1 actuator with a controller ::scratch? Guess 2 actuators and a button is so much less ::K


Right or wrong that is the way I will be doing it, if it doesn't work everyone will be the first to know ::salute
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 01:33:12 PM by usmc_butler »

BigPines

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Re: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2013, 01:23:06 PM »
I doubt Lamborghini had these actuators custom built. Most linear actuators are built by one of a few companies. These exact actuators are probably available from another source. I assume you only found this picture and you don't have the actual parts to try to find some identifying manufacturer markings?
If I don't have time to do it right, when will I have time to do it over?

No Bull

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Re: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2013, 11:56:57 AM »
Anyone know how the real batwings work mechanically?

Lamborghini keeps it really simple and they use one linear actuator per wing (see picture) and run the circuits in parallel.  The two advantages of using a single mechanical link with one actuator is half the noise (actuators can be pretty loud) and both wings will always stay in sync and open / close at the same time.  You can also adjust how slow or quickly you want your wings to operate by simply adjusting the lever / pivot points.

I agree that the easiest way is to follow what Lamborghini does and just use two actuators and there are a lot of options (and costs) out there that range from actuator speed to actuators with built in limit switches and position feedback.

Chris

 

apsara

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Re: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2013, 11:40:40 AM »
you have too many parts that will fail during use. why not keep things simple and just use an electronic actuator? just daisy chain both of them together, hook it up to a switch and power supply and your done.

BigPines

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Re: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2013, 11:12:53 AM »
Go for it man! I will be watching with interest. :)
If I don't have time to do it right, when will I have time to do it over?

usmc_butler

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Re: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2013, 11:02:57 AM »
Ya I agree it would be a bit over kill (hell most of my build is overkill anyway,  ::tongue) but you could get everything at a pick and pull for 10 bucks including the mounts, sway bar connectors that would connect to the batwings. For 10 bucks I couldn't even get a heim joint ::tongue. Also shouldn't have to worry about batwings flopping around ::headbang 

BigPines

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Re: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2013, 10:34:50 AM »
I think the new idea is sound but I think a sway bar (even from the smallest vehicle) is overkill. You may have to create a custom bar for this application that will be strong enough but lighter weight. I will be very interested to see what you end up doing.

Anyone know how the real batwings work mechanically?
If I don't have time to do it right, when will I have time to do it over?

usmc_butler

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Re: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2013, 10:20:45 AM »
This is my new plan for the batwings. All electronics can be purchased on Pololu.com and/or ebay. Very easy to program when I get a chance I will post the code up to run it.

usmc_butler

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Re: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2013, 08:17:36 AM »
RT, BIG thanks to you ::salute! That is very detailed easy to understand...! ::beers



eddie

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Re: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2013, 10:26:55 PM »
just quick stupid thing ,the sun roof opens lift up funtion whith longer prop?? nah fuggedaboudit.

RT

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Re: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2013, 09:42:00 PM »


Here is how I suggest as a way to make the batwing drive.
The drawing in the corner shows a cross shaft with linkage to the batwings and driven by a linkage from a power window drive.  The cross shaft can be placed anywhere there is a clear area from side to side.
The wiring shown is operated by a temperature switch like those made for radiator fans that turn on when a pre-set temperature is reached and turn off when the radiators are cool enough.  This also has a manual switch to lift the batwings.  I included a timer circuit because if you leave the switch on and walk away, the circuit would continue to power the relay #1 and never shut off.  Including the timer circuit is just a safety feature.  When the timer times out, the batwings will close.  If you use a momentary switch you do not need the timer circuit but the batwings will close when the button is released.
Relay #1 when activated by either the temp switch or manual switch sends 12VDC through the “UP end of travel switch” and on to trip the relay #3.  Relay #3 trips and connects 12VDC to the drive motor, moving the batwings up until it trips the end of travel switch and stops power to the circuit.  Relay #1 can remain tripped by either switch but the power will not go anywhere.
When relay #1 is de-energized the 12VDC returns to the “DOWN end of travel switch” and on to trip relay #2.  Relay #2 trips and connects 12VDC to the drive motor, moving the batwings down until it trips the end of travel switch and stops power to the circuit.
In either up or down position the end of travel switches prevent any power drain when the batwings are at their end of travel.

RT
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usmc_butler

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Re: Bat Wing Lifting & Closing Ideas
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2013, 02:50:36 PM »
Ok so forgive my video it was just quick to show a point ::duh. It seems the van window motors move at a different speed and they aren't stepper motors (no feedback for a computer to tell what position each switch is in). So my first thought would be to hook a computer to them and when you hit the button it would run them for _ number of seconds until the wing is up then hit the button again and _ number of seconds until the wing is down. This wont work now due to the motors starting and stopping at different positions. Eventually down the road (unless you had 2 switches for each motor) you would have one batwing up and one down. How would this be corrected  ::scratch I would think you would need something like a what is on a car window motor to stop the motor when it reaches the top and same for when it is down. Any other ideas ::study?