Author Topic: 3800 SC Not starting  (Read 1073 times)

★Murci-Me★

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Re: 3800 SC Not Starting
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2017, 09:20:58 PM »
If it fires up with starter fluid its probably ot your throttle body. Being that you have spark (engines runs with starter fluid), and there's gas in the tank, its probably fuel related (Injector wiring, fuel pump relay). Have you verified you have fuel pressure at the fuel rail? Can you verify the fuel pump runs?
Throttle bodies are pretty simple in design, I wouldn't imagine your problem lies with that. If the engine starts with starter fluid but then dies after all the fluid is burned off, I would look at your fuel system before buying any sensors or a new throttle body.



Hmmm.........
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 09:23:37 PM by ★Murci-Me★ »

CCIE

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Re: 3800 SC Not starting
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2017, 09:16:07 PM »
Mu
So you're saying that the rain passed through the car cover, passed around the fuel filler door, passed around the gas cap into the gas tank?

Murci!!!.......

It seems to be more of a fuel issue. There is intermittent fuel pressure loss in the fuel rail. I suspect fuel pressure regulator (Though I still suspect the MAS sensor). I have ordered some steel breaded fuel hoses, Universal adjustable fuel pressure regulator to start. The fuel pump seems to run but I am thinking about replacing that as well with a high performance fuel pump. Unfortunately my real job keeps me busy so next weekend I hope the parts will be delivered and I will install. Will update then.....  Thanks to Eddy I just learned where the computer is in the NAERC Chaise and where the OBD connector might be so I hope to learn more....Thank You all for the help

CCIE

★Murci-Me★

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Re: 3800 SC Not starting
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2017, 03:23:36 PM »
Any updates on this? Did you get it running?

01Lambiero

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Re: 3800 SC Not starting
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2017, 10:55:59 AM »
So you're saying that the rain passed through the car cover, passed around the fuel filler door, passed around the gas cap into the gas tank?
20 yr. GM Niase certified Auto Mechanic (Tune-Up, Brakes, & Heavy Repair)
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★Murci-Me★

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Re: 3800 SC Not starting
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2017, 10:38:28 PM »
Neils88 is right, the best way to drain the tank is to use the fuel pump in the tank to pump it out. I don't think you will have a problem with residual water in the tank, if there is some just add some fuel stabilizer to a full tank of gas and will burn off through normal engine operation.
Be certain to do the dual oil change as Neils88 stated. It will guarantee all the water is flushed out of your engine. Just use the cheapest oil of the right weight you can find for the first flush, then drain it and use the type of oil you normally use for the final fill.

Neils88

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Re: 3800 SC Not starting
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2017, 05:40:07 PM »
The easiest way to empty a tank is to disconnect a fuel line near the engine and run it to a bucket, then put 12V directly to the pump. Since you have a 3800sc I'm guessing this is a Fiero setup (you probably stated that somewhere, but I didn't go back to check).  If so, you can unplug the connector at the firewall and connect some jumpers. You'll have to look up which wire is which...can't remember offhand.  If you had a large quantity of water in the tank then I'd still recommend dropping the tank once it's most drained so that it can be opened and inspected, and any remaining water removed.

If you have proven water contamination, then you should drain the engine and do a normal oil change.  Run the engine for 5 minutes then perform a second oil change.  Some people won't bother with the second oil change, but it's minor cost to flush the system.  You shouldn't require any oil additives.  Ensure you change the filter each time as well.

CCIE

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Re: 3800 SC Not starting
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2017, 03:50:54 PM »
Looks like this is my potential entry point of water in my tank (Still to confirm)
I hope to get/make an accurate copy of a Diablo 60 gas door and graft it in over the winter.
Now the question is What's the best way to remove water from the tank... Is there any possibility of draining the gas tank without removing it from the Diablo?
I will be doing an OIL CHANGE over the weekend. What else can be done to remove all the water from the engine block and what else can I do to stop any potential damage in the engine block

Thanks
CCIE

CCIE

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Re: 3800 SC Not starting
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2017, 02:18:50 PM »
Don't waste your money at a mechanic anyway, this is all troubleshooting you can easily do yourself.
Check for water in your fuel rail by turning your ignition switch "on" so the fuel pump pressurizes up. Go to the schraeder valve/fitting on your fuel rail and bleed off some of what comes out into a cup. You don't need much, maybe a few teaspoons full. Go to an open area in your yard and pour it on the corner of a paper towel, then see if you can get it to burn by lighting it with a match or lighter. If its fuel, even old bad fuel, it will easily catch and burn. If its water though like I suspect, no fire in the world will light it.
My reasoning is simple, whatever is being squirted into the cylinders is not burning even though you have ample spark. This is proven because starting fluid gets the engine to fire up, so the only thing missing in the whole equation and preventing the engine from starting is fuel. You're saying that when you inspect the cylinder by removing the spark plug the cylinder interior looks wet. It shouldn't look like that, it should be bone dry. Gas would evaporate, water wouldn't. Gas would ignite, water wont.

Murci!!!..... Thank You!!!! I am almost sure there is water in the tank. I suspect it leaked through the gas inlet on the top/side of the Diablo in Heavy rain. The reason I was taking it to the shop was to get the water removed.
What would be the best way to remove water from the gas tank without dropping the tank?
What would be the best way to remove the water from the engine block beside draining the oil/oil change
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
More to follow this weekend

Thank You
CCIE
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 03:57:20 PM by CCIE »

★Murci-Me★

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Re: 3800 SC Not starting
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2017, 10:42:00 PM »
Don't waste your money at a mechanic anyway, this is all troubleshooting you can easily do yourself.
Check for water in your fuel rail by turning your ignition switch "on" so the fuel pump pressurizes up. Go to the schraeder valve/fitting on your fuel rail and bleed off some of what comes out into a cup. You don't need much, maybe a few teaspoons full. Go to an open area in your yard and pour it on the corner of a paper towel, then see if you can get it to burn by lighting it with a match or lighter. If its fuel, even old bad fuel, it will easily catch and burn. If its water though like I suspect, no fire in the world will light it.
My reasoning is simple, whatever is being squirted into the cylinders is not burning even though you have ample spark. This is proven because starting fluid gets the engine to fire up, so the only thing missing in the whole equation and preventing the engine from starting is fuel. You're saying that when you inspect the cylinder by removing the spark plug the cylinder interior looks wet. It shouldn't look like that, it should be bone dry. Gas would evaporate, water wouldn't. Gas would ignite, water wont.

CCIE

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Re: 3800 SC Not starting
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2017, 12:08:48 AM »
Ok CCIE...the pressure is now on you to find and report the actual problem...prove one of us right, and the other wrong lol...  :LL:

Neil... I don't want to prove anyone wrong. I am sooo thankful for the forum members to help point me in the right direction..... THANK YOU EVERY ONE!!!!
Unfortunately I have to go to Dallas for the week for work and will be back and will report after the coming weekend.
More to follow.
By the way I called several local shop and since this is a "custom car" no one wanted to work on it and the few local speed/custom shops near me are all booked up for weeks, so now I have to wait until I return back (according to my wife "work is more important then my silly Diablo thing" ... Dam I hate it when she is correct)

More to follow

CCIE
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 12:18:14 AM by CCIE »

Neils88

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Re: 3800 SC Not starting
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2017, 11:03:06 PM »
Ok CCIE...the pressure is now on you to find and report the actual problem...prove one of us right, and the other wrong lol...  :LL:

★Murci-Me★

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Re: 3800 SC Not starting
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2017, 10:43:26 PM »
If there was wiring damage to the injectors, they wouldn't be able to spray the fuel (actually water) into the cylinders that he has claimed to see when he removed the spark plugs. If any fuel AT ALL was present in the cylinders, the engine would at least try to start when he turned it over being that there would be residual fuel in each cylinder.
I never said the oil pan would be full with water, just that if he pulled the plug the first thing out would be water (in any amount).
Whatever is being sprayed into the cylinders via the injectors is not burning. He has stated that he does have pressure at the fuel rail, so the fuel pump is evidently working even if its not 100%. Even bad gas will burn somewhat, and the engine will sputter and try to start. It seems to fire up just fine with starter fluid, which would rule out pretty much everything else.

Neils88

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Re: 3800 SC Not starting
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2017, 10:30:55 PM »
I bet if you crawl under the car and remove the oil pan drain bolt the first thing to come out will be water.

I'd be surprised if it had that level of water accumulation and even more surprised if water accumulated in the oil pan from him trying to start the engine.  If there is water in the oil, then it's more likely from a damaged head gasket...and clearly there is no indication of this (and it shouldn't cause the car to not start, especially since it does start with starter fluid).  I would agree that it could be bad fuel, or some water contamination. 

The most common failure for a car that has sat (other than bad gas) is the outlet hose from the fuel pump failing after sitting in the aging gasoline.  This leads to a failure that reduces (or eliminates) fuel pressure.

Given that the failure seems to have occurred after a "mechanic" cleaned the throttle body, I'd be more worried about some wiring damage to the injectors.  I'm guessing the injector fuses have been checked....


★Murci-Me★

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Re: 3800 SC Not starting
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2017, 09:58:40 PM »
I ve said it was a fuel problem from the start of this thread. There's apparently nothing else wrong with your engine or you wouldn't be able to get it to run with starter fluid. Being that you CAN get it to run with starter fluid, it is obviously a fuel problem. If the "fuel" that is being pumped from your tank to your injectors wont ignite in your cylinders (even bad fuel will still somewhat ignite), then its definately not fuel being pumped. Water sinks to the bottom of the tank, fuel pumps pick up whatever is at the bottom of the tank.
I bet if you crawl under the car and remove the oil pan drain bolt the first thing to come out will be water.

CCIE

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Re: 3800 SC Not starting
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2017, 03:27:19 PM »
Maybe, just maybe, it's time for yahoo #2?
01


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