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How To - Tips => Doors => Topic started by: notnilc20 on June 20, 2012, 12:15:05 AM
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Hi there,
For those that have built their doors with working power windows. How do you get it to stop at the top when the window is closed and at the bottom when opening, so the window doesn't go all the way down?
since the window is too big for the door you can only "roll" it down part way (about halfway). How can you stop the motor at this precise point so you don't accidentally roll down too far? Also, the same when going up.
Thanks
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There are two ways.
1) study the mechanism to see what moves and weld on a tab somewhere so a long bolt will act as a stopper. The bolt can be adjusted in length to fine tune the stop point.
2) install micro-switches that cut off the circuit when it gets to a certain point.
Image stolen from RT.
(http://farm1.staticflickr.com/27/93348974_2d797a7914.jpg)
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Thanks for posting that diagram, Jim. You beat me to it! LOL
I use that limit switch system for every motor drive. I even had a door lock/unlock motor burn up because they can't take too much power while at the end of travel. The wiring is too simple to not use. Figuring the where and how of mounting the switches is the hardest (?) part but worth the effort. Just make sure they are secure and won't move so the window (or other device) will always stop where you expect.
RT
BTW, I also use mechanical stops too, just in case.
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Thanks guys.... Is the reason that it switches to a ground is so you can then have power to move the window the opposite way??
I was planning on doing this but I guess I need a switch that will switch to another source once it's tripped instead of the one I have where it just switches off. Where do you get your switches from? Would like to find some that are spring loaded internally so they are only switched while the pressure is on them and then they switch back as soon as you remove pressure from the switch arm so that way I can avoid having to mount springs somewhere in this already cramped space. Thanks.
Also, can you tell me some good ways for mechanical stopping? Will doing mechanical stopping only be hard on the motor? Is this the way the factory window motors are done?
One more thing. Some pics of your application would do wonders for me. (Mounting, how did you get the switch to trip? etc etc ) I know, it's a lot of questions, but I appreciate it. Thank you!!
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Yes, the limit switch connects that wire (to the motor) to ground so the motor can only be run in the other direction. DC motors reverse by changing the direction of the electric flow. As soon as the window moves away from tripping the limit switch the switch re-connects to the power window switch. It happens seamlessly.
Power window switches can provide the proper current flow from the switch. If you don't want the full current passing through the window switch you can make the switch trip relays, one for each direction. In that case, the motor wire connects to the relay common the NO goes to a 12 vdc supply and the NC goes to ground. The window switch will pass power to the relay tripper with the other tripper wire going to ground. The tripped relay sends power to the motor and un-tripped connects the motor to ground.
Check out these pictures. They are just one way to go.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/49982981@N00/347113482/#in/photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/49982981@N00/347113482/#in/photostream)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/49982981@N00/347119987/#in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/49982981@N00/347119987/#in/photostream/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/49982981@N00/347119990/#in/photostream/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/49982981@N00/347119990/#in/photostream/)
RT
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Thanks RT,
Those pics are very helpful (especially the way you mounted the bolt for the mechanical stoppage).
RT, where did you get your switches for the windows? Can you point me in the right direction? I'm not too bright when it comes to electric work and all these switches are making my head hurt. Please help me. Thanks a mil.
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By placing the mechanical stops some place on the drive unit instead of the window or window frame, the load stresses will go directly to the drive unit and prevent stresses to the more breakable parts. You don't need to put them where I did. Look at your unit and find a convenient, strong location.
That also goes for the location of the switches except they will not have load stresses.
I have used www.mcmaster.com (http://www.mcmaster.com) for almost everything, including limit switches. Recently I needed switches immediately and found the local electrical supply store (the one that sells wiring supplies to electricians and lighting fixtures, etc.) had boxes of them on the shelf AND they were cheaper. So look locally and you could see what you have before you buy and you could save some cash.
You are looking for snap action switches. You need SPDT (Single Pole Double Throw). That has three terminals to connect the wires. One is the common, one is normally closed, and one is normally open. There will be designations molded into the switch housing.
The switches in the picture are Mcmaster number 7783K-13.
I have also used Subminiature number 7658K-16. These are a lot smaller but require creative mounting and you will solder the wires on.
So there you are. Get power window switches and wire them up!
RT
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This is a very informative thread, RT great job on responses very detailed ::thumbup .
RT is that your Diablo in the pictures? Very nice, clean and detailed work ::beers
Dustin
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usmc_butler
Yes, that is my build. Thanks for your comments.
Check out my videos on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?feature=mhee (http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?feature=mhee)
Especially view my recent "Replica Lambo walkaround".
I also have "how to" videos of many constructions.
Thanks again...
RT
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The link didn't work ::scratch, however I believe I found your page and subscribed! You are the actuator KING. Have any good references for actuators?
Thanks,
Dustin
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http://www.youtube.com/user/RonTinari (http://www.youtube.com/user/RonTinari)
in case someone else can't find it
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Thanks, T ::beers
Ive been looking at all of your videos! Wow very nice i will be referencing some of them frequently ::thumbup
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By placing the mechanical stops some place on the drive unit instead of the window or window frame, the load stresses will go directly to the drive unit and prevent stresses to the more breakable parts. You don't need to put them where I did. Look at your unit and find a convenient, strong location.
That also goes for the location of the switches except they will not have load stresses.
I have used [url=http://www.mcmaster.com]www.mcmaster.com[/url] ([url]http://www.mcmaster.com[/url]) for almost everything, including limit switches. Recently I needed switches immediately and found the local electrical supply store (the one that sells wiring supplies to electricians and lighting fixtures, etc.) had boxes of them on the shelf AND they were cheaper. So look locally and you could see what you have before you buy and you could save some cash.
You are looking for snap action switches. You need SPDT (Single Pole Double Throw). That has three terminals to connect the wires. One is the common, one is normally closed, and one is normally open. There will be designations molded into the switch housing.
The switches in the picture are Mcmaster number 7783K-13.
I have also used Subminiature number 7658K-16. These are a lot smaller but require creative mounting and you will solder the wires on.
So there you are. Get power window switches and wire them up!
RT
Thanks RT!! This info helps me out tremendously. ::headbang
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Which limit switch you used? I couldn't find anything for low volts on there!
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Onewickedsvt,
I used the switches as listed by part numbers in the previous post. Just because they say they are good for 120V doesn't mean you can't use them for 12 VDC. They work fine.
Also, thanks Tallon for the youtube link that works.
Dustin,
Most of my actuators are power window motors with the rotating arm used to connect a spherical rod end and link to another rod end that moves what you need to move. If you only need small movement you can use trunk pull-down motors. They have about one inch travel. I also found the drive unit that power-tilts seat backrests are narrow and strong, so there is another place to look. I looked into linear actuators but they are expensive. i guess this is just the "cheap" coming out of me.
RT
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I wonder how well this will work with the different weather conditions and WATER dripping into the door area.
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I wonder how well this will work with the different weather conditions and WATER dripping into the door area.
Over time rust inside the switch would be a concern. But honestly, how many times will you be driving the car in the salt and slush? These switches will work fine under water. A coating of Dielectric grease will stop any problems.
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OK, so I got the switches and got the wiring all sorted out and it works. But I still need to mount these little buggers. I was thinking about using adhesive but I want to know what is a good adhesive for the plastic housing of the switch to mount to the metal gear wheel of the window motor. Any suggestions? Or is using adhesive a bad idea? I don't know how else to mount them. Thanks
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I tried adhesive on a switch....once. Some seeped inside and I had to replace it.
It would be best if you weld on a metal tab to support the switch.
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notnilc20,
It sounds like you want to mount the switches on the moving gear of the motor drive. I would mount them on a non-moving support that is fixed to the motor drive base and have the gear or a bendable metal tab welded to the drive that trips the switch. Mounting solidly to the motor base will assure a constant positioning of the switch to the tripper. Using a bendable metal tab will allow you to fine tune the stopping point.
If you got the bigger size switch, use the mounting holes to put screws through to secure the switch. If you got the subminiature switch, you could do what I did and use coat hanger wire through the holes and weld the wire to a base with a tab screwed to the base to keep the switch in place on the wires.
The subminiature switches require soldering the wires to tabs. I cut thin pieces of plastic sheet, such as those sample credit cards we all get in the mail, as insulators to make sure the wires don't short out on the metal mounting. Just put matching holes in them and slip them over the mounting wires.
RT
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so would it be best to add the switch on the window channel area so when it does down, the window trips the switch?
thanks!
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You can put the switches any place that gives you an accurate, consistant stop location for both travels up/down of the window.
I like to design in modules. My window drives are on a removable panel that bolts to my door steel frame. The mechanical stops and electrical switches are mounted on this panel and detect the window location by where the linkage is in its travel. There is very little excess movement (play) in the motion of the window glass relative to the movement of the drive linkage so once I have them set, they work consistently. If I ever have any "issues" with the window drive, I can remove the module. If I don't move the switches or stops on the module, they will still be adjusted when I re-install the module.
RT
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RT, I got the switches mounted and I mounted them to a stationary spot (drilled a hole and used a small bolt and nut and didn't have to weld any tabs or anything and was able to route the wiring behind the motor mount so they weren't getting in the way of the gear. anyway they work great! Just wanted to say thank you for your insight and next time the drinks are on me. ::beers cheers
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Thank you RT!
That was a REALLY helpful set of responses/thread!
Awesome