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How To - Tips => Other / Everything Else => Topic started by: minuteman3282 on July 21, 2016, 07:57:57 AM
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Having some trouble getting the roof set like it should be. I need some advice on what to do or what I'm doing wrong or missing. Do the smaller passenger windows set before or after the firewall? I have been told the firewall is suppose to be moved forward, more straight up than the original Fiero firewall is set at. What are the dimensions between kick plates (?) front and back? (the width of the body between the doors from one side to the other) I have a height of 43.25" that was given to me by Cliff Miller for the rear of the roof. I have rubbed of the front height I had marked on the roof from moving it around, so I need help on what it is suppose to be. Any help at all would be great right now. If I can get the roof set where it is suppose to be I think I can set the rest of the panels on correctly. Thanks in advance for any help with my roof.
EDIT: Forgot to mention I am working with a '88 Fiero frame with a 10.5" stretch per Cliff Miller.
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I think that if you temp mount the front fenders you will see how far fwd you have to mount the body
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Hi there,
Glad to see you finally got your parts. I think I remember you going through some trouble getting all of your body panels.
AB is right.Try and get your front fenders and bumper and hood temporarily mounted and center the front wheels in the wheel well. This will give you a pretty close idea as far as front to back placement. As far as the height in the front of the roof I am not really sure. Maybe you could try and message cliff and ask him. I didn't know that the back of the roof was supposed to be 43.25" so you helped me out there! thanks ::thumbup I am at this stage now as well. I have had my body on and off a dozen times to trim metal and then mock it up again. I am building on an MR2 so I can't really help with dimensional info.
Good luck and try to start a build thread if you haven't already. We love following the builds!
Mike
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Here are some pictures that might help you locate the firewall, although I do not think it will line up with the Fiero. I wish I could help you with the other measurements but I am also working with a kit and don't know if mine are the same as the OEM. Assemble the whole body and see how it fits over the wheels, from there you can adjust it front to back and up and down to get it to sit right. It's a lot of work and it will take you several times to get it right. Let me know if there is anything else that you need.
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I agree with what Mike and Adrian said above, mount your fenders and then adjust from there. Glad to see that you got your kit, will sure love to see more of your build!
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You can use small pieces of fiberglass or sheet metal with self tappers to bridget across panels. You will have a hole to fill later from screw but I really don't know any other way to get the whole body mocked up. Paint sticks work well as panel spacers.
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Cut the upper corners off of the firewall.
Cut off the top of the front dash and heater/defroster unit.
Install a 2" wide track coil-over suspension kit.
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Thanks guys! I really appreciate the great info. I will work with the fenders and see where that will get me as far as where the roof should be setting and go from there.
I'm still missing several panels of the body and wing that I have paid for. The last convo I had with Cliff pretty much ended with him telling me to go F&*K myself and I would not be getting anything else from him. I hate it ended that way with him because his work is really outstanding. Things just got out of hand in his life and I paid for it I guess. That's what happens when you rob Peter to pay Paul and that's what happened to him. He's a great guy but a very poor business man, my opinion only.
I will start a build diary soon as I got enough to post about.
Again, thanks guys for all the helpful input.
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Wow that's too bad that it had to come to that, if you need any help sourcing your missing panels let us know and we can help. What exactly are you missing?
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Sorry to hear that things worked out that way for you bud.
I also had a similar experience with Cliff. What panels do you need still?
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I am missing the wing and uprights for the wing, the lower panels for the rear fenders, the scoops that go in front of the rear wheels, the third break light piece that goes on the roof, dash and center console. All was paid for but I will never get them from him. What's the worst part about it all, is that I paid for a 670 body and got a 640.
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Yup sounds familiar. I only paid for an exterior body. No interior, so I didn't get burned on that.
I also paid for a 670 body and received a 640. Do you have any 670 parts yet? I am working on converting the rear now and will be offering the parts when I am done. Hit Pedro (autopro) up for the front Bumper and grills.
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Yes let us know, we have all of those parts that you are missing for an OEM kit. The rear bumper, wing and uprights Mike is working on are coming along great!
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Thanks guys!
Mike if I'm not mistaken Cliff was making our bodies at the same time. In reality he was only making one body and sharing the parts from it between you and myself. I remember you getting panels before me and I had already paid him in advance the year before and was wondering why I had not received any panels yet. He just did that to keep us happy and make us think we were getting our stuff. It will all work out in the end.
Again thanks guys for your input. I will def be in touch with you about my missing panels when I get the point of needing them. Thanks!
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Wow what a piece of work. He told me so many BS stories, I didn't know what the heck was going on. I will hook you up with the rear parts when I get them done. ::thumbup
Mike
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Thanks Mike! Your a real stand up guy and I really appreciate the offer. I just literally finished reading your build diary and you have really done an outstanding job so far. I'm sitting at work now waiting on 4 to get here so I can go mock my fenders up to see what I need to do for the roof. I finished my chassis a few years ago and it's been waiting for the body to be completed to keep it warm. LOL
I will get in touch with you shortly to work something out for the missing panels that I'm needing. Thanks again!
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Sounds good. It's gonna be awhile yet to finish all the rear stuff. But i am chipping away steadily at them.
I will be updating my thread a bunch in the next few days so you will be able to see some progress on those parts.
keep up the good work.
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I don't think I'm in no hurry lol. It's been 6 yrs to get this far. Thanks!
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hahaha about the same here! ::thumbup
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Having some trouble getting the roof set like it should be. I need some advice on what to do or what I'm doing wrong or missing. Do the smaller passenger windows set before or after the firewall? I have been told the firewall is suppose to be moved forward, more straight up than the original Fiero firewall is set at. What are the dimensions between kick plates (?) front and back? (the width of the body between the doors from one side to the other) I have a height of 43.25" that was given to me by Cliff Miller for the rear of the roof. I have rubbed of the front height I had marked on the roof from moving it around, so I need help on what it is suppose to be. Any help at all would be great right now. If I can get the roof set where it is suppose to be I think I can set the rest of the panels on correctly. Thanks in advance for any help with my roof.
EDIT: Forgot to mention I am working with a '88 Fiero frame with a 10.5" stretch per Cliff Miller.
Hi Minuteman, My chassis is an 88 gt as well, Looks like you already know this but yes the top half of the fire wall just above the center runway needs to be pushed forward and re-weld in to place to line up with the back window wall, it looks like your fiero chassis wasn't re-constructed for the body, did you do the stretch and re-enforcing? or bought it from someone like that? Check out my photobucket page 10 I believe for more... that should geve you an ideal, as murcie and diablo are similar in that area.
(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff226/lambo_sam/100_1408.jpg) (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/100_1408.jpg.html)
(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff226/lambo_sam/100_3318_zpsab790037.jpg) (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/lambo_sam/media/100_3318_zpsab790037.jpg.html)
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Thanks Lambo_sam! Yes I did the stretch myself but at the time was not aware that the firewall had to be moved forward. I found out about the firewall after the stretch was completed. So what you are saying is that I need to more or less bring the firewall forward from the shifter tunnel, for lack of better words, up to a straight up position to match up with the rear window of the roof? I was figuring that was part of my problem to start with. I also noticed that the passenger small window is wanting to rest on top of the frame just behind the firewall also. Which I'm thinking that I may be trying to set the roof too low which is causing that particular issue. I will be taking my fenders and rear quarter panels to the shop this afternoon to get a better guess as to where the roof needs to be positioned. I appreciate your input and pictures to help me get a visual of what it should look like.
Thanks again everyone for all the great info and your input!
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One more quick bit of info.....
Should I be concerned about having a dash in place before setting the roof in place? Or can the dash be added after the body is in place? It just seems it would make life easier if the dash was in place while mocking the roof and panels into place.
Just a mind fart blowing through my thought process is all.
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I would use it to confirm fit, but it isn't a requirement
It is always a good idea to place as many components as possible during mock-up / fitment to make sure that you have adequate access to install and more importantly MAINTAIN. Nothing sucks as much as when you find out that you just beautifully installed this part, only to have to cut it all out
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find a builder that has used a Fiero chassis for his/her build using the same or close to the same body kit that you have. They should be able to give you closer insight as to what works and what doesn't work. This will help you save money and headaches in the long run. Hope that you make it into the 3% club.
01
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interior parts for fiero and mr2...fast and easy...very good look
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One more quick bit of info.....
Should I be concerned about having a dash in place before setting the roof in place? Or can the dash be added after the body is in place? It just seems it would make life easier if the dash was in place while mocking the roof and panels into place.
Just a mind fart blowing through my thought process is all.
Minuteman, I can only speak for putting that body on a NAERC frame but that answer would be yes. It is not impossible to put the dash in after the body but you will tear up it and other stuff doing it, much much easier the other way. I would still like to know what happened to the rest of your parts and the other body.
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76mx----
I went to Cliffs' unannounced and picked up every panel I could get that day as well as my frame that he was suppose to be mounting the body to. I was able to get almost all of the panels except for the few that he had not made as of that time. A later conversation with Cliff ended with him telling me to go F*&K myself and I would not be getting the remaining panels from him. He stated he was out of the replica business and would not be making any more panels and had moved to SC for work. He put all the blame on another company he was "merging" with and left it at that. I talked to the company he was suppose to be "merging" with and they stated that was absolutely untrue. Like I had mentioned before I had paid him in full for an LP670 OEM body, but only received an incomplete LP640 OEM body.
Thanks for all the helpful info everyone, it's much appreciated.
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The company that he was supposed to be "Merging" with was me, remember? He had written a letter in response to one of the lawsuits, which you provided me a copy of, that explained the merger. Like I said at the time, there was no "Merging" and that was all news to me. My deal with him was simple. I provided him with two Murcie bodies and other assorted Murcie parts to get him out of the two lawsuits with you and John. In exchange I got his Murcie molds, Countach interior molds, and other molds. No merger, a trade of pieces and parts, simple as that. I knew nothing about 640 or 670, I made parts from the molds provided. Once done and delivered to him, I had no control of where they went from there, and have no idea why you did not get all of your parts, especially since there were extras and all was delivered at the same time. I have just learned today that the second body went to 670Mike instead of the other man that had sued him. Why he still has all of the molds that I traded for is a whole other story. I do not know what he would blame me for, all I did was give him two Murcie bodies for free.
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Are we sure that John never recieved a body? I recall both of them posting pictures of Johns car at one point which had a body on it?
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See this page
http://lamboclone.com/index.php?topic=2787.30 (http://lamboclone.com/index.php?topic=2787.30)
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Thanks 76mx! I do remember talking to you over this, sorry I didn't put two and two together. BUT yeah just like you stated, everything went down like we had discussed previously. I know where my other parts went because I seen them for myself when I stopped into the mans shop and started talking to him about them. I asked where he got them and the answer was Cliff because he owed them to him and more panels were owed and never received buy him. So your saying he still has all the molds that he owes you for your work? If so I hate you got in the middle of all this and are left out in the cold with nothing to show for it. If I can help in some way let me know. I have no problem going and picking up your property for you if you wish. I do not mean any disrespect to you at all for any of this, it wasn't your battle or problem. That's why I did not put any name with my last post. Please don't think I'm putting any blame on you at all, I'm just stating the lies I was told. That is also why I reached out to you at the time to verify his statements about the merger.
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From my understanding John did receive his body because he or his son came with the local sheriff to pick it up the week before I made my visit.
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Ok to get back on track (but I do appreciate all the input and info).
I'm still having some issues getting things to line up. I removed the corners of the firewall and brought it forward to a straight up 90* position. The roof framing is not wanting to line up with my firewall with the fender in place as a reference.
(http://i63.tinypic.com/119xhf4.jpg) (http://i68.tinypic.com/s3dmrs.jpg) (http://i68.tinypic.com/298soj.jpg) (http://i66.tinypic.com/rk0zt3.jpg) (http://i64.tinypic.com/2l8elnq.jpg) (http://i63.tinypic.com/2m5ez2f.jpg) (http://i66.tinypic.com/izrpt0.jpg) (http://i68.tinypic.com/2qxymmo.jpg) (http://i64.tinypic.com/2z6i3r7.jpg)
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Check out Purples build he is doing a beautiful job building a murci with oem panels on a fiero. Maybe you can get some insight from his chassis.
http://lamboclone.com/index.php?topic=1667.360 (http://lamboclone.com/index.php?topic=1667.360)
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Thanks 76mx! I do remember talking to you over this, sorry I didn't put two and two together. BUT yeah just like you stated, everything went down like we had discussed previously. I know where my other parts went because I seen them for myself when I stopped into the mans shop and started talking to him about them. I asked where he got them and the answer was Cliff because he owed them to him and more panels were owed and never received buy him. So your saying he still has all the molds that he owes you for your work? If so I hate you got in the middle of all this and are left out in the cold with nothing to show for it. If I can help in some way let me know. I have no problem going and picking up your property for you if you wish. I do not mean any disrespect to you at all for any of this, it wasn't your battle or problem. That's why I did not put any name with my last post. Please don't think I'm putting any blame on you at all, I'm just stating the lies I was told. That is also why I reached out to you at the time to verify his statements about the merger.
No disrespect was ever perceived and I certainly do not put any blame whatsoever on any of you for me being the big looser. I returned to the fiberglass shop from Texas and they told me that Cliff had come last week to pick up all of his molds. I laughed and asked them what they said. Then they told me they said that they would help him load them. That was several years ago and my jaw is still on the floor. If someone has other questions about this whole episode I am glad to tell what I know, otherwise it was a long time ago and old news (even though my jaw is still on the floor).
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OK! So I have took a step back and trying to approach it from a different angle. Instead of working with the roof first, I decided to just mock up the entire body and frame out for all the body parts and try to assemble it as a one piece body. Doing so I have found a few problems that are starting to show up. The roof panel and the rear quarter panel are not wanting to line up properly. I have included a few pics of what I'm having issues with. If anyone can hold my hand and help me understand what I am doing wrong or missing please do so. Thanks!
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This is more or less what I am doing with my car. I have to look at my body again, but I believe my quarters have some miss alignment at the top as well. I don't know if that is due to the thickness of the fiberglass pushing the whole quarter forward at the flange or if it is supposed to be that way. I have had to assemble and and re assemble my body on the chassis countless times in effort to get the body set and framing built. While there is no perfect way to do this, I believe the best approach is to have your frame stretched to the right wheelbase and have all suspension and drive train installed and adjusted then begin to assemble the complete body on top of the chassis with braces, clamps etc. Eventually you will figure out whats and what you need to do.
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Also it really helps to have the rear bumper and engine lid assembled with the quarters and the roof. The bumper and engine lid will establish your spacing and help set the angle of your quarter panels. This should get you close and then you can deal with warpage and things like that.
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The solution there is actually quite straightforward . The rear quarter panel is an extreme version being mated to a cliff/watson ( whoever ) B-post moulding , therefore the upper most half - where the door shut / side window profile is , is the same part so what you are doing id overlapping the same part over the top of itself and moving the quarter panel forward at the top.
Placing a door skin in place may illustrate the problem by the door corner overlapping the quarter panel
:)
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I was wondering if that was the case with my body. I wasn't sure or not.
Thanks, I will have to look into now. :notworthy
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The thickness of the fiberglass is what I had thought of originally. Considering the thickness of the actual panel is much smaller than the two panels overlapping each other. I have the frame stretched to Cliffs specs that he gave me while he was making the body. The engine is installed and I have my ride height set by his specs. I was just hoping that by assembling the body as a whole would ease the mounting to the frame. I have tried setting the roof first on the frame and it just would not work out for me. So that's why I backed up and trying a different approach. I have messaged Cliff, which I know is in vein, to ask him but of course no response. If I had the opportunity, I would shove this whole thing right up his butt and deal with the lose of money.