Author Topic: Third broken input shaft  (Read 10098 times)

dratts

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Re: Third broken input shaft
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2012, 09:22:34 AM »
The first input shaft broke when it was in the original transmission engine package.  Not entirely unexpected as the input shaft was a known weak point.  The second (a300M alloy one) was a surprise to me as I only got about 15 miles before it broke.  It shifted very hard and fast and I'm not sure if that had anything to do with it as I'm unfamiliar with performance automatic transmissions.  We then did a $4,000 performance rebuild on another transmission and the first time I put horsepower to it I broke the last aermet100 alloy shaft that was available.  I heard another opinion yesterday about the shaft alignment issue.  So I've had two transmissions in the car now.  How do I measure shaft alignment?  Should I go back to the transmission that was part of my original engine transmission package.  I was there once already with the 300M shaft.  Should I go there again with a better tune for torque management?  I'm back on the road again right now and driving it like a little old lady.  The transmission seems ok except that the torque converter slips in and out of lock out with the slightest throttle variation.  Personally I suspect torque management as the problem with the first 300M shaft failure.  One of my transmission rebuild was due to a torque converter failure.  I wish that I had been informed about the likely failure of that part.  I would have installed a built torque converter with the transmission in the first place.  I sure hope that anybody who follows me can benefit from my misfortune.  I've spent close to $8,000 on my transmissions so far and all I wanted was to put my car on the dyno once with 15 lbs of boost to certify the horsepower, then run it throughout the 1/4 once to see what it would do.  After that I wanted to feel the horsepower at 5-8 lbs occasionaly without beating on it and not worrying about breaking it.  So far all I've got from my builders is "sorry about that, give me some more money and I'll fix it again". 

01Lambiero

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Re: Third broken input shaft
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2012, 02:38:38 PM »
I'm agreeing with jdinner.  Replace trans unit.  It really sounds like too many mods done to the trans and then you don't know which way to turn to fix the problem.  I turned a Turbo-400 into a Clutch-Turbo once, added a reverse pattern valve body, accumulator piston flop, and front pump pressure boost.  It worked but what if it didn't????  I think that I would have felt very much like Dratts.

Jim
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dratts

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Re: Third broken input shaft
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2012, 09:37:11 AM »
 Wow!  What a great bunch of responses and so many things to consider and discuss with my transmission guys.  Thank you!  Thank you!  There is no place anywhere that I could get this much support and advice. 

Jackal

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Re: Third broken input shaft
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2012, 07:32:35 AM »
We haven't dynoed the engine yet.  The turbo kit is supposed to supply 640hp, but I wasn't anywhere near that when it broke.  The transmission was a 20,000 mile unit from Morads and I spent over $3,000.00 getting it built by car tuning, the same guy (Kevin) who supplied the turbo.  I was totally surprised to see the twist on the splined section.  At his point I'm starting to question if the heat treating after machining the aermet alloy was adequate.

Do not know what your torque rating on the box is but I am using an Audi 01E box (6 speed manual) and that is rated to 450Nm torque. I was told in no uncertain terms at GT40.com that that is the ONLY box to go for. I suggest you look for such a box usually found on 2wd A6?A8 or S8's Prestige Motors in the UK sold me one.

As far as your pic of the broken shaft, I'm no expert but did you do any suspension lowering on your ride? If you did remember there is play on the shafts and if you cut the coils and drop the ride that play gets neutralized and can cause the shaft to ride (milling?)

jdinner

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Re: Third broken input shaft
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2012, 04:22:35 AM »
I would see if I could get a lower mileage trans from a salvage yard and throw it in. See how well it holds up in stock form, then down the road rebuild it with some better parts. I wouldnt get a different trans throw a bunch of money at it, then put it in and then come to find out its something else causing the breakage....

I agree, do it stock for now and see how it performs.

01Lambiero

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Re: Third broken input shaft
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2012, 10:20:13 PM »
     I think that we need far more info if we are going to be of any help and we need more pictures.  Was the trans completely torn down after the first shaft breakage?  What did the trans oil smell like?  Did the car slow down and then lose power?  Did the car have a loud bang and then slow down?  How much chaff in the oil pan?  Any other trans parts showing excessive wear?  Are any of the sprags showing chatter?  Looks like a double gear engagement part failure.

Jim
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tonypaul

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Re: Third broken input shaft
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2012, 05:17:15 PM »
I just spoke with my trans guy about your problems, he said- inside your transmission case there are machined grooves around the inside of the case. These grooves are what hold these various large snap rings that hold in the clutch packs/steels/ foward drum/ect. More than likely one or more of the material around the grooves has gave away or just broke and is not able to hold down the cluch packs/ drum/input shaft/ect. Its kinda wallowering around in there and it will catch at a certin spot and just snap anything that isnt lined up...

Hope that makes a little sense~ He has my friend 700r4 on his bench right now that has almost the same problem. Someone tried to put some 200r4 parts into his 700r4 and it broke one of machined recessed areas. My buddy has a '32 Ford coupe replica that had a weak sbc 305 in it and the trans never gave him any problems. We just put in a brand new 383 crate motor in it and the trans lasted 20 minutes....

dratts

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Re: Third broken input shaft
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2012, 03:31:58 PM »
We haven't dynoed the engine yet.  The turbo kit is supposed to supply 640hp, but I wasn't anywhere near that when it broke.  The transmission was a 20,000 mile unit from Morads and I spent over $3,000.00 getting it built by car tuning, the same guy (Kevin) who supplied the turbo.  I was totally surprised to see the twist on the splined section.  At his point I'm starting to question if the heat treating after machining the aermet alloy was adequate. 

tonypaul

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Re: Third broken input shaft
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2012, 02:58:23 PM »
Just get a whole new (used) core and go from there. That transmission just doesnt want to live behind a badass motor in a badass car, it wants to live behind some old grandpa's Buick Park Ave.

I would see if I could get a lower mileage trans from a salvage yard and throw it in. See how well it holds up in stock form, then down the road rebuild it with some better parts. I wouldnt get a different trans throw a bunch of money at it, then put it in and then come to find out its something else causing the breakage....

SchulzeA

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Re: Third broken input shaft
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2012, 10:08:02 PM »
I researched the transmission for a bit. It's only rated at 280 ft lb stock... You have done upgrades to it but what tq is your engine putting out?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 11:49:05 PM by SchulzeA »

dratts

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Re: Third broken input shaft
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2012, 09:06:02 PM »
Just googled it.  6.75 at 206mph!

dratts

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Re: Third broken input shaft
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2012, 08:20:39 PM »
The first stock input shaft, the second 300 m input shaft and the third (this one) aermet 100 shaft all sheared in the same place.  (where the o-ring fits).  This one was different in that it scored the bushing surface and twisted the splined area.  For what it's worth it was in a 25 mph zone and I might have been doing 35.  So far there have been some people who blame the 3rd gear acceleration for the break.  I do know that I should not have been in third gear for an acceleration at that speed.  I am still surprised though.  This was the input shaft that GM Racing used in their 1200 hp ecotech.  I think that they did about 180mph in the 1/4.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 08:28:01 PM by dratts »

SchulzeA

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Re: Third broken input shaft
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2012, 08:06:50 PM »
Yeah hardened steel usually busts into jagged pieces when fractured. The material pictured appears to be soft. Do you know a shop that could test the brinel/Rockwell of the shaft? Maybe they are only case hardened with a soft inner section...
Did the others break exactly the same?

jdinner

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Re: Third broken input shaft
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2012, 07:29:02 PM »
That is not a load/impact/torque fracture of the shaft.  They look really different when the hardened steel is broken under shocking torque.  That looks like it was put on a lathe.
The load conditions you are describing will not break the shaft.  I feel you have a poorly made transmission or serious problems with the housing.

Fieroking

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Re: Third broken input shaft
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2012, 02:31:13 PM »
Here is a little more info on the problem with Don's transmission. The last input shaft broke when accelerating at more than 50 percent throttle from 20 ish MPH in third gear (trans in manual mode no down shift) Stall on the converter is stock but the converter is built. First shaft (stock broke shifting from 3rd to 4th at 90MPH, second shaft broke accelerating up an on ramp from a city street (gear unknown).
Pic of the Aermet 100 shaft
 
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