Author Topic: Countach wheelbase '87 and earlier 96.46.......any replica bodies that are same?  (Read 1276 times)

88.5countach

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    • 88.5 Countach's Website (Lamborghini Countach Replica)
Huh never new about the short length but TNH comments make sense.  Think mines 98.5 I seem to recall measuring that years ago.  It's a Kustom kit.

lambo

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Guys this was up on Ferrarichat tonight just to add to the confusion my car is a Prova copy and wheelbase that suits that correctly, with correct wheel gaps etc is 2540, but I have also measured real oem at 2515
« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 04:08:21 AM by lambo »

76mx

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TNH,
   That is a good debate and well laid out. I have seen most of this before and still do not believe there were two wheelbases for this reason. Stamping dies are the most expensive part of building a car, GM says up to half of the wholesale expense (the pension fund is the second biggest expense by the way). Those dies have to be amortized by a bunch of units to get the cost per unit somewhat reasonable. For example in this case, five million dollars for dies (cheap) amortized by a few hundred units adds twenty-five thousand dollars per unit. Saying that there was not two wheelbases is speculation on my part, but until there is some ironclad proof that a second set of tooling dies were made after only a few hundred units, I will never believe otherwise. It just does not make business sense. I also cannot see going back to Bertone and asking them not to change anything else, leave the fenders to look like bolt-ons, just change the wheelbase.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 09:05:11 PM by 76mx »

TNH

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I don't have any confirmable sources, I'm just going off of what I have read online and what I've been told over the years. Unfortunately my computer crashed and I ended up replacing it after failure to salvage it; I lost a lot of saved data about car stuff, including some links to sites that seemed more credible, just appeared put together better and with more extensive info than the current stuff I have saved/bookmarked.

I hope I didn't  make any errors writing this...my head started to spin once I proofread it, but this is what I've got, haha....

I was always told that the early versions of the production Countach (there's a long wheelbase prototype in there somewhere in the early years), specifically the LP400 (and some say the LP500S) were the shorter 96.X wheelbase. The 25th Anniversary car (and some say the LP500 Quattrovalvole) are all the longer 98.X wheelbase. Lamborghini definitely made some major suspension changes for the massive P7 tires (introduced with the LP500S , but they also made some changes to just the front suspension for the added width of the 225/50/15 P7's that debuted on the LP500QV). When I think about it, I would assume that the more major suspension geometry work that was done to fit the massive(compared to before) P7 tires resulted in the wheelbase change...... just seems more likely than them having to/deciding to change the wheelbase when the only changes made for the new LP500QV was the front suspension geometry for going from a 205 width tire to a 225. I'm really just making an assumption though....its very possible that for whatever reason, the changes in geometry to accomadate a front tire that was 1" wider on each side could have necessitated a change in wheelbase. What supports that is the fact that it seems unanimously agreed that there were no body changes done at all from the LP400(that is generally agreed to be short WB) to the LP500S(which people seem to be on the fence about regarding WB). The LP500QV However, had the engine compartment  increased in size and a hump added to the body to allow for the larger engine with the top mounted carbs, and had some of the body panels made from different material than before.... a change in wheelbase necessiates changes to the body, so if everyone agrees there were no body mods from the LP400 to the LP500S, then it suggests that the 500S is also the short wheelbase despite getting substantially re-worked suspension to accomadate the P7's. The body mods done between the LP500S and the LP500QV were of the type that could easily accomadate a small wheelbase stretch.....despite the only changes in suspension being whatever was re-worked to accomodate the 225/50/15's up from over the 205/50/1's

I've been reading around and came across some production number informaiton. One reason all of the kits I have seen might be 98.X" wheelbase is that Lamborghini made far more production cars in the longer wheelbase than in the 96.X". Even if all the LP500S are truly the short 96.X wheelbase, there were still only around 500 of them produced. If the LP500S are long wheelbase, then there were only about 150 of the shorter cars made by Lamborghini in total out of a total of 1800-2050 (Are there any statistics for these cars that aren't debated heavily, lol).

These are generally the type of sites where I see all the varying wheelbase info.The ones linked below show what I consider to be the 'internet average' for each model's wheelbase. There seems to be zero debate about the wheelbase of the 25th Anniv. and the LP500QV wheelbase....its a unanimous 98.X". The two contested ones are the LP400 and LP500S, although the LP400 is leaning towards a 96.X" majority.

25th Anniversary:
 2500 mm / 98.25 in
http://www.lambocars.com/countach/countach_25th_anniversary_specifications.html
LP500QV
2500 mm / 98.25 in
http://www.lambocars.com/countach/countach_lp500_quattrovalvole_specifications.html
LP500S:
2450 mm / 96.29 in
http://www.lambocars.com/countach/countach_lp500_s_specifications.html
LP400:
2450 mm / 96.29 in
http://www.lambocars.com/countach/countach_lp400_specifications.html


1985: Quattrovalvole edition is introduced as LP500S QV. 5167cc powerplant gives 455bhp, with a raised engine cover, wider front tyres and suspension geometry changes.
http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/lamborghini/countach

76mx

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TNH,
   My LP500 mold is 98.5. There has been confusion about this before and I never found reliable documentation that the earlier cars were anything but 98.5. What do you have that indicates they were 96.5? Added to this confusion is the Prova which is supposed to be an accurate reproduction but their build manual says it is 96.5 and when measured it is 98.5.

TNH

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Are any of the reproduction bodies 96.46" wheelbase, or are they all 98.4" like the 25th anniversary car?
I get confused because wasn't the actual LP400 and LP500 the shorter wheelbase, but even kits that replicate them are usually made in the longer (98.4") size?