Author Topic: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern  (Read 7003 times)

eddie

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Re: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2013, 11:36:12 AM »
OH yeah he broke down the molds ,only one will be here. too much money in for somebody to splash .

BigPines

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Re: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2013, 11:30:21 AM »
Thanks eddie. For anyone else interested, the MM thread is: http://www.madmechanics.com/forum/build-diaries/16006-citroen-gt-build-diary-toronto.html

Looks like some interesting stuff there. He used Styrofoam, two layers of yellow carpenter glue, a thin layer of drywall mud, a few coats of house primer and finally automotive primer on the plug (sanding between each step). Others I have seen have used different foam (polyurethane or polystyrene) and body filler or even plaster of Paris. I just read about a product called StyroShield: http://www.duratec1.com/dp707-018StyroShieldPrimer.html

I think it is interesting to see the different material people use. I would like to understand the advantages and disadvantages better.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2013, 12:02:44 PM by BigPines »
If I don't have time to do it right, when will I have time to do it over?

BigPines

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Re: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2013, 11:25:09 AM »
Here is my pics diary body from scratch  ::LAMBO

http://gt2871r.rajce.idnes.cz/?sort=&page=2
http://gt2871r.rajce.idnes.cz/?sort=&page=1


Wow, thanks for the wealth of photos in that collection. Very impressive! You are very talented. What an amazing amount of work there!

It looks like plywood for the forms. It looks like you also used spray foam for at least part of the plug. Did you use another type as well? If so what was it? Does it get eaten by resin unless sealed with something?

Thanks for sharing.
If I don't have time to do it right, when will I have time to do it over?

BigPines

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Re: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2013, 11:14:37 AM »
Eu também estaria interessado em qualquer forma de ajuda seria muito bom para todos que gostam de uma boa construção.
FYI, I used a Portuguese translator on the above:

"I also would be interested in any form of aid I would be very good for that they like a good construction."
If I don't have time to do it right, when will I have time to do it over?

eddie

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Re: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2013, 07:57:46 AM »
 my neighbor got his Citroen GT  scan from a 1/18, CNC out of foam, then then all the other stuff to make a mold of it .got a  guy who use to make 25th reps. to do all fiberglass work.  scan and CNC foam was good 20K alone. you can follow his build on MM.

killerwollf

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Re: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2013, 07:34:35 AM »
Eu também estaria interessado em qualquer forma de ajuda seria muito bom para todos que gostam de uma boa construção.

bierhanzel

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Re: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2013, 07:12:30 AM »

italianknightrider

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Re: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2013, 01:29:30 AM »
try making just the front end full size , cutting 2 pieces screw together at one time insure that for station "F" Both sides are cut identical
We hope our post help someone finish their build or get them interested in our hobby and start a build.

BigPines

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Re: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2013, 01:20:31 AM »
Thanks IKR. I have seen those plans. However, I wonder about the accuracy of them. I wonder if I wouldn't be better off starting with a larger size practical / physical model and just cutting it up on a band saw to make my forms. Lots of options available.
If I don't have time to do it right, when will I have time to do it over?

BigPines

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Re: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2013, 01:15:15 AM »
Digibeam, I like the way you think! I was actually already thinking of doing a smaller version first (go-cart or golf cart). I still don't know if I am really going to do this yet or not but it definitely interests me. I have my own separate LP670 project and I don't really need to get distracted with my brother's project (which he isn't even ready to start yet himself) but I thought these skills could come in handy on my project too since OEM 670 parts are tough to find. I would need a better place to work and I have been thinking of adding a shop onto my house. This means I am a long way from jumping in yet. :-\

I share your zeal for quality...in a way that is what scares me the most. I know if I actually did this, it would be all or nothing. I have a hard time settling for mediocrity. Thankfully, my wife understands this most of the time so I don't believe a divorce attorney will be needed. ;D
If I don't have time to do it right, when will I have time to do it over?

italianknightrider

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Re: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2013, 01:00:43 AM »


We hope our post help someone finish their build or get them interested in our hobby and start a build.

Digibeam

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Re: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2013, 12:53:26 AM »
perhaps a smaller project?  then work up to a larger one... a scaled version of the car to say 1:4

then you can deal with all the same interesting issues, though the windshield would be a "make it yourself", but it would not be needed...
you will experience all the expenses and anguish the full size will put you through but perhaps at a 1/4 of the price... (not)
in the end you could sell the part as a go cart or some sort of exotic golf cart...  but walk away with significant experience and possibly still have a relationship and home to go home to...
i am the last person to suggest dont do it, in fact i am all in when it comes to moving forward and trying something different, but i feel it still has to be done at a level that is exceptional, never cut corners, never leave out because no one will notice anyways,  someone will always notice and in the end its what you have done lately that will be in every ones minds.
quality is not just a good idea, for yourself or for anyone else quality should be the highest and at whatever it costs to achieve based on the project.
i would not expect gold pinned connectors on a golf cart any more than cheap fiber glass with voids on a Lamborghini.
skill and attention to detail will create the quality, fear of doing it wrong is par for the course.
you will do it wrong, as we all have, it will cost money , time and several interesting 4 letter word combinations and then you will learn from that and start to do it right.
im ready when you are...

BigPines

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Re: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2013, 12:30:03 AM »
Wow, thanks for the lengthy response. There are some gems of wisdom in there. I appreciate you sharing your experience. That is all I was looking for. I'm not looking for a free ride. I'm trying to figure out if this is something my brother (and I) even want to attempt yo get into. I know how much work it has to be (and even then I won't know until we actually do it).

I like the idea of doing this because you have 100% control but the downside is you also have 100% of the work. It may not be feasible for us. I'm still just digging around trying to get educated.

Mike
If I don't have time to do it right, when will I have time to do it over?

Digibeam

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Re: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2013, 12:17:59 AM »
It is a learned art, and a significant investment in time, effort and money.
if it was something that could be picked up on a passing whim then everyone and their brother would be making plugs and moulds and the world would be filled with exceptional vehicles of futuristic proportions.
but this is not the case, in order to learn this art, you must "learn this art"
start from the bottom learning glass and fabrication, mould making concepts and requirements, composites fabrication and bonding, CAD design, programming possibly  and even then, you need a place to do it in, the ability to have disposable income to finance the errors and mistakes and then multitude of designs and moulds you will make that come out wrong or damaged or that destroyed the master plug as well as the mould from it...
this would not guarantee that all could be applied and create the final objective...
some of us have spent decades learning and are still learning this art by applying it on a daily basis, spending more money than some people earn just to find out that the idea didnt quite work out.
the odds of sitting back and being handed the information without effort put forward would be an insult to those who have gotten their hands dirty and made the investments as well as paying the price.
that being said,
I use several CAD programs, Rhino being a favorite, along with Vcarve and Cut2D Cut3D ViaCad 3d and for final mesh work i use Nettfab Pro.
forms are usually made from plywood as there will be a lot and MDF would weigh a ton... spacing is all about resolution, the closer you slice the design the better the resolution but also the more forms.
foam i have seen anything from pink or blue closed cell to spray foam, either way once in place through hot glue etc. it would be sealed before adding any type of resin.. or guess what you will be doing all over again?...
when you are making the plug all your final finishes will be implemented near the end, this includes the windshield form etc.
making the plug act as the final product is the purpose of the exercise.
once you have roughed it then you will coat it, on foam i use a rosco product which is designed to coat any type of foam  once hardened you can almost stand on it...  this will be sanded down using normal methods of coarse to fine etc.
once the whole plug is done... several months/years later and after the divorce has been settled and you have found a friend with a garage you can finish the work in,  you will clear coat, sand repeat, then wax the plug down several times,and spray with PVA, at which time you will start to make moulds of the individual areas of the plug... a one shot of the whole plug is not going to happen, you have to do it in parts,  though you could do the whole car as a final product   again huge and hard to handle, so quarters at a time would be my choice.
flanges on everything, dont pull anything off until the whole plug looks like its in body armor and ready to fight in the Jurassic era.

the flanges will be bolted together and matched... the mould will be made in layers over days and weeks, not all at once or you will destroy something with the heat that is going to build up...namely that plug you just put your life into.
so from this and most people will not agree but my next step is to pull those moulds... do a run of each part, create a frame to mount them to that will create the new glass plug,  then fit and start to refine the design.
once the new plug has been body worked and all seams and areas are solid straight and acceptable to anyone other than yourself...
you clear coat and do the wax thing all over... and after the PVA  you will gel coat the parts with a thin coat which is then backed with filler in the corners and sharp areas and glassed  with flanges etc.
once this has once again turned into the punk mutant turtle, let it sit for a week...no peeking.
after this when you pull the moulds you will have a master set of moulds, that you will wax and PVA each and every time you use them without question because thats how you make a prime product, not wax once and pull several times...
there are no shortcuts, there are no easy ways, there are no cheap methods.
anyone who trys to suggest otherwise is not in the thought of a prime result, they are looking for a fast buck and have no concern for the product.
and sure there are about a hundred things i left out, because i am here to help out if some one needs it , not do the work...

so, i am not trying to be condescending by any means... but this is something you need to roll up your sleeves and jump in, no one is going to spoon feed anyone and no person should expect there is a free ride out there, we all got into this hobby to build a car... if you dont want to do that then you are in the wrong hobby...
once you get into a jamb then we are all here to help you out of it... but you have to get into it first...
no prejudice, just my immediate thoughts. 

BigPines

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Re: Buidling Body Panels Via a Custom Buck / Plug Pattern
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2013, 09:19:58 PM »
So either nobody here knows how to do this (which can't be true) or nobody wants to share their trade secrets? I guess I'll have to find another resource and experiment with this on my own. The Mercy is fairly available but I am not too impressed with anything offered for the Aventador - thus the question.
If I don't have time to do it right, when will I have time to do it over?