Special Construction Titles?

[76mx]

Here is another thing to clear or muddy the waters. Most states have adapted the SEMA Model Legislation for registering a handbuilt car. Texas was already friendly to this and it is not much different from the link that Lambocars posted. There are two versions of this legislation. Some states have adopted the first one and have not yet gone back into session and changed to the second one in order to fix a loophole. In those states, if you apply for a title, they are going to issue one for a Lamborghini. Probably the best answer for all of this is the 50 State Registration Guide at sema.org

[No Bull]

The car was built and given a new Special Construction VIN and matching title before 2013 in the state of Arizona.  When the car came to Ohio, the only inspection my DMV required me to take it to a dealership for an out of state inspection which is required for any titled vehicles purchased out of state.  The dealership took about five minutes to visually match the VIN from the title with the VIN plate that Arizona attached to the door jamb.  I took the Arizona title and inspection form to the Ohio title department and they transferred the Arizona Special Construction title to a Ohio Special Construction title.  My car did not require a State Hwy patrol inspection and I did not need to show any receipts, VIN or serial number information for any of the parts used.   If the car would've had a salvage title or needed a new VIN and Special Construction title created for it (not transferred) then the car would've required a State Hwy patrol inspection and I would've needed the old VIN, reciept and serial number information.

There is a big difference between transferring a clean out of state title vs. requesting a new special construction or rebuilt title and of course this differs from state to state.

The car sold last night but this is good information for others that might have similar questions or concerns.

Thanks,

Chris

[JJS SE30]

Hey fellas, as you already know each state is night & day when it comes to Vins relating to a car.  In Ohio any car purchased outside the state wanting to be title in Ohio must have a bill of sale with it includIing the VIN then it must have an out of state inspection.  This inspection can be done at large car dealerships or an Ohio titling office.  Basically what they do is take the title and match it with the VIN on the car and the receipt.  Once that is done they will give you your Ohio title.  If you make your own car, motorcycle, then they can issue you a self-assembled vehicle VIN which has to be applied for then I believe taken to an Ohio State Patrol examination station for inspection and validation before a title is issued.  I believe these VINs do not have to reach the 17 digit specification.  In Ohio if the VIN is ever removed from the chassis expect some major involvement with the Ohio State Police.  Hope that sheds a light on how states are different and possible obstacles you might have to expect.  As for the 17 digit VIN # origin, I believe that my apply to mass produced vehicles from car manufacturers but don't hold that to me.  Hopes this helps!  J

[Havemurci]

NoBull and redline, seems like you guys trust each other so if you set up an escrow acccount and send the title for transfer, if it goes through.. send the car and release the funds, if not small fees spent, no nightmares. My.02

[Tusabes]

Oh and just to add to the confusion - no matter what we say here , the particular DMV office you go to will have different requirements then another Florida DMV office

Just take a look at the factory five replica guys getting their titles in Florida -
http://www.ffcars.com/forums/50-insurance-registration-discussions/175115-easy-steps-title-florida-ffr5310rd-legal-5.html
the process seems to differ For each and every person because each employee does it a little different !!

[lambobuilder]

I have registered two hand built cars in Texas and they assign a 7 digit VIN

Here is process for Texas http://www.lambobuilder.com/register.html

[Havemurci]

The special construction VIN would have been issued by the state and the person who was able to obtain it would have to have surrendered the original title and complied with the state regs for the construction, a new title would have been issued that matched the new VIN. That should cover the new creation body and chassis as one complete entity. So there would no longer be a registered chassis VIN from the old car. If there is no title, tracking down the original owner and getting him to request a copy would be the way to go.

[76mx]

   Funny story about that. Title 51 of the Federal Transportation Code outlines a 15 digit US VIN number format and construction procedure as well as automaker licensing. It also subcontracts the delegation of this to the SAE. The ISO approached the SAE and suggested an Internationally Standardized 17 Digit Format, which SAE accepted. The trouble was, nobody bothered to change Title 51. When my manufacturers license was submitted the first time, per Title 51 in the 15 digit format, it was promptly thrown in the trash. My formal introduction to USDOT and SAE was in the form of a United States Congressional Inquiry Letter with a gold leaf letterhead. My Congressman Jack Burgess wanted to know why his constituent's application had been trashed, and why Ford, GM, and Dodge had been issuing illegal US VIN numbers for the past year.
   Michael, I do not doubt what you are saying but I am curious how a state can issue a 5 digit VIN when Federal Law is very clear (now) about the format of a 17 digit VIN. It is not a matter of a state adopting it, it is Federal Law. I am also curious what another state would say about a 5 digit VIN.
   Then again, just because it is Federal Law, I wonder how many digits the VIN numbers have in Colorado?   

[Michael Everson]

Mass hasn't adopted it.  I just titled my FFR 818 and got a 5 digit MA assigned VIN
Mike

[Tusabes]

Thanks for the current industry standard, i didnt know all the states adopted the 17 digit vin for their assigned vin programs

I'm Assuming nobulls car had its special construction title and vin prior to 2013. 

[76mx]

Tusabes,
   They were not back in 2013 when that thread was written. Now they are all ISO Internationally Certified and 17 digits. 

[Tusabes]

 state assigned vins usually are not 17 digits and are usually placed on the door jamb not on the chassis .

See this thread where several of us posted our special construction California vins

http://www.madmechanics.com/forum/build-diaries/16594-how-do-car-replicas-pass-inspection-3.html

They are riveted to the door jamb.   It is this new assigned vin number that you would use if you were buying a California special construction kit car and taking it to Florida

[76mx]

Redline, I may be able to help some. Realize that there is no such thing as a body VIN, only a chassis VIN. The body may have a serial number or other I.D. but a VIN can only be issued by a registered chassis builder, and they all know that the rules are very specific about it being assigned and located to the chassis. I think this is why your state is not concerned about he body, only the chassis. In the terms of the regulations, the chassis and the VIN is the birth certificate of the car. The State knows that chassis had a VIN, and wants to know where it came from. You cannot just make up a VIN, every one of the 17 digits is closely regulated and means something. 4S9 identifies me, others tell options and types, there is a check digit that does not add up if any characters are changed, the world location of the factory is one, and finally the sequential order. All of this is regulated by the USDOT and overseen by the SAE and ISO. There is also a Certificate of Origin assigned to that VIN which is printed by the Federal Printing Press and they want to know where it went and who got the title.

[Tusabes]

I am assuming No Bulls car has a special construction title and a matching state issued vin tag, issued from another state

The vin tags assigned by a state are usually placed on a door jamb

 no matter where the vin tag is placed on the car, you register it in Florida using the exact same title and vin he hands you .  If there are two vins on the car (from the fiero and from the state special construction vin) you use the special construction vin that matched the title .

Every state of the United States must honor an out of state title .  Importing from outside the USA is a completely different story which we aren't going to get into here.

[redline]

Hello everyone,
I am in the market for a project LP640 that I can finish with my son and I have been in contact with Chris(No Bull) in regards to his car. After speaking with my DMV here in Florida it seems that I am getting some negitive information in regards to getting the replica titled and registered with regards to the chassis VIN vs. body VIN. I have been told from the DMV that there has to be someway to track the chassis and this is what the title should be attached with and a aftermarket body doesn't really matter. If the VIN is attached to the body then that is fine but what is the VIN for the chassis? THey said if the chassis has nothing to prove it is what it is then there is no way track the chassis thru the system of buyers and sellers making it difficult to register it as not using stolen parts or if the whole chassis is not from the rightfull owner.

Now I'm not saying that I agree with this but I can see there side of the coin too. What I need to know is if anyone here has been thru this and what needs to be done going forward so that we all can get a clearer understanding of the steps needed to have a healthy buyer/seller environment. It never fails when I inquire about most aftermarket replica's the main issue is "oh, but I don't have a title" or "it's a special homemade frame up build so you'll have to looking into getting it on the road" where you live....I would have bought 4 cars buy now but it always seems to be the same story.

I guess I'm just looking for some solid info on this crazy red tape maze that seems to become why so many builds are just left 80-90% complete. There has to be a common denominator imo, and is this it? I can see the frustration if so. Now I know some may say, don't worry about it and that all replica's can be registered with not much issue but I have spoke to a person that has a nice 90% complete one here in Florida that he has been trying to sell for years.....It just has no title but he can write a "bill of sale".....Then it's only a "parts" car right?

I would like to ask Tusabes what "a new VIN inspection in the new state" consist's of in my state of Florida and any issues I may have with only a body VIN and no chassis VIN. Maybe you can shed some light on this. Thanks!

As far as I have told be my DMV, if I had a stack of handmade body's with a VIN stamped on them, and a stack of stolen/no title cars with the body's ripped off them and then sold as replica's they could never be registered and get a plate/tag to be driven on the street. The title is tied to the chassis/frame, not any body put on.

Thank you all for hearing me out and reading my extended post. I hope everyone and anyone that can shed any light on this subject no matter where you are located can help shed some light on these issues. If I need to start a new thread for this please let me know. Maybe it would be a good common thread for these title/VIN, special construction, out-of-state, Canada, import/exsport, spaceframe, etc. info.

Thank you everyone for your input on these matters.

Redline