Modifying the BMW V12

[dan760]

1-7-5-11-3-9-6-12-2-8-4-10

[AdrianBurton]

The TR6060 is a standard gearbox, so that will require some sort of reversing set up (V-Drive)

[SchulzeA]

That engine is built by AMG, so you are talking cams crank and possibly/ probably some head work.  But be warned if you go to far down that road you WILL need to spend more money on gearbox, that engine will be capable of nearly 700# natural.  There are only a few know tho survive that Ricardo (16k), porsche g50 and g60 (15-18k), Cima 25-30k....., there is also the odd lambo box that shows up from time to time

I guess you kinda get the picture, you could end up with 40-50k in drivetrain alone.

I'll be doing the cams, valves/springs and headers. Some aluminum connecting rods would help lighten the rotating assembly. I'll be using the modified TR6060 level IV trans from RPM Transmissions. It handles 800hp and costs a lot less than a comparable transaxle.

[Tusabes]

There are other tuners beside AMG who increased the performance of the Mercedes m120 v12 engine . Brabus and renn tech are the big ones . Can easily get 550-600 Hp out of them 

[AdrianBurton]

That engine is built by AMG, so you are talking cams crank and possibly/ probably some head work.  But be warned if you go to far down that road you WILL need to spend more money on gearbox, that engine will be capable of nearly 700# natural.  There are only a few know tho survive that Ricardo (16k), porsche g50 and g60 (15-18k), Cima 25-30k....., there is also the odd lambo box that shows up from time to time

I guess you kinda get the picture, you could end up with 40-50k in drivetrain alone.

[SchulzeA]

The m120 looks like a better option than the n73. I'm trying to find info on the variations between the oem and Zonda version.

[apsara]

its a racing engine, the top portion of the engine can be purchased but the bottom end is all custom milled.  price tag on the engine is $45,000.  I'll be using this engine alot in other builds, so instead of me paying 45k each time I'd rather reverse engineer it and offer it at a lower price to others.  plus there's shipping and duty fees.  its a v8 not a v12, smallest v8 ever built

[AdrianBurton]

Yes the N73 the prob with it is there is no aftermarket for it, the bore spacing won't allow use of the heads on the M7x motors.

If you are looking for an alternative to the m7x engines, look at the merc m120, the thing to keep in mind is that it's a bit bigger than the M7x bmw and heavier.

Yeah there's not much for the N73 except programming. Which is my case is mostly what I'll be needing. Link offers a ECU and a friend suggested the autowerke Simon handheld.
Have you done any research into the M120?

I have done some, you can go aftermarket for engine management. For power parts there's AMG, pricey but available. Cams, i was looking into hard welds (web cams) the would do whatever grind profile that i wanted

[SchulzeA]

Schulzea, are you able to reverse engineer an entire bottom end of an engine?  I talked to a few machine shops but their unwilling to touch it.  maybe they were scared of the price tag of it lol.  anyways I'm in need of some parts machined in about two months, have to make an exact copy of this engine. up for the task?

Why do you need the bottom end and not the complete engine? Which parts are you needing? From which engine, M model or N model? Though they are both V12's, they are very much different.

[SchulzeA]

Yes the N73 the prob with it is there is no aftermarket for it, the bore spacing won't allow use of the heads on the M7x motors.

If you are looking for an alternative to the m7x engines, look at the merc m120, the thing to keep in mind is that it's a bit bigger than the M7x bmw and heavier.

Yeah there's not much for the N73 except programming. Which is my case is mostly what I'll be needing. Link offers a ECU and a friend suggested the autowerke Simon handheld.
Have you done any research into the M120?

[apsara]

Schulzea, are you able to reverse engineer an entire bottom end of an engine?  I talked to a few machine shops but their unwilling to touch it.  maybe they were scared of the price tag of it lol.  anyways I'm in need of some parts machined in about two months, have to make an exact copy of this engine. up for the task?

[AdrianBurton]

Yes the N73 the prob with it is there is no aftermarket for it, the bore spacing won't allow use of the heads on the M7x motors.

If you are looking for an alternative to the m7x engines, look at the merc m120, the thing to keep in mind is that it's a bit bigger than the M7x bmw and heavier.

[SchulzeA]

Yes. First of all, a flat plane crank won't work in a v12. The BMW and lambo share the same crank design already. The BMW rotating assembly is also cryo treated and balanced to .5 grams.
I've found that BMW has also made an updated version of the v12 coined N73. It runs DOHC heads with dual Vanos, Valvetronic and produced around 440hp stock. I'm still doing research on the ECU's and how you can run a radical cam with valvetronic. Modifications are difficult considering the engine doesn't use a throttle body any longer and relys on the valves to regulate air intake. 

[AdrianBurton]

any progress???

[SchulzeA]

What other mods are needed to the 5.4 or 6.0 v12 to run a flat plane crank (besides cams)?
Does anyone know the firing order? I've read two different patterns online,  and I'm unsure of which one is correct.

I have a quote on machining the cranks at $3-5k for one off. Prices will be cheaper if it's logical and I draw up the blue prints. It also gets cheaper if more than one is ordered.